Climbers for Christ

oakwilt said:
I can't remember the exact flavor, maybe cherry, but 248 heavily armed christians willingly drank this arsenic-laced Kool-Aid after opening fire on an American congressional investigation of child abuse among the adult followers of one Jimmy Jones evangelical preacher who used "the words of our Lord" (the same words you use now) to entice his "flock" into murdering their own children then drank themselves into salvation and everlasting peace.
If there exists any fraction of a mind left in the brainwashing of a human being, killing yourself at the Lord's command is one thing, raping or killing your children for your beliefs is another thing all together.
For God. I've heard that murderous excuse all too many times now.
The mindset of terror. The tragedy of false fear. The election of a lying molester just so you hear the word of God mentioned and allowed to spread.
Click to expand...

Exactly! This is a great example of how you cannot judge the entire group by the action of some. I believe your example perfectly captures the worst evils in this world, and that is doing something horrible and saying it is the Lord’s will. Obviously those people have troubles!
 
oakwilt said:
I would say so...the same scriptures, the same Lord, the same mindsets.
Click to expand...
Obviously it is hard for you to relate to the Lord’s Word as you don’t see how it can even be used as a force for good. Instead let’s find something you can relate to so I can demonstrate this principle. Take Arborists for example: Certified Arborists are educated and tested on a set of values and knowledge that we all share. Now this same book can be understood and interpreted differently. Some might be applying what they learned incorrectly, one Arborist might altogether forgo the teachings and do things that are very unhealthy for trees. Does this mean that we can say that all Arborists are improperly caring for trees? Same book, etc.
 
Last edited:
John_KAYS said:
Obviously it is hard for you to relate to the Lord’s Word as you don’t see how it can even be used as a force for good. Instead let’s find something you can relate to so I can demonstrate this principle. Take Arborist for example: Certified Arborist are educated and tested on a set of values and knowledge that we all share. Now this same book can be understood and interpreted differently. Some might be applying what they learned incorrectly, one Arborist might altogether forgo the teachings and do things that are very unhealthy for trees. Does this mean that we can say that all Arborists are improperly caring for trees? Same book, etc.
Click to expand...
Or another example is law enforcement. We have police officers doing their job enforcing the law and then we occasionally get a few that take their authority and use it unreasonably. They have beat and killed from anger or misguided thoughts. Also, gun owners face the same persecution for the actions of others. Not everyone who carries a firearm has the same mind frame as criminals. I don’t bring these up because I think we should debate these various controversial topics, but to show that judging the majority by the actions of few is a feeble foundation.
 
I've testified, as an expert witness, in more than 30 criminal trials involving christian fanatics and their treatments of fellow human beings. I've collected evidence and zipped-shut body bags of their victims. Many were diced and sliced enough to warrant quart-sized ZipLocks™ we had to purchase at Wal-Mart because local crime scene techs were wholly unprepared to deal.
The common denominating factors in all these horrible massacres were fundamentalist christian fanatics, quoting the Lord's "words" not at all unlike your attempts to spread this illness. In fact, word for word.
1 to 2 generations have passed since these weekly/monthly encounters with Holy Evil, but I don't forget. Listening the other day to a evangelist arguing for a parade permit to spread his lies (I continue to infiltrate hate groups), I couldn't help but notice his youth in addition to his itemic recall of born-again noteworthy history of "the 'war' on christianty, he appeared to forget about how often noteworthy historical mass-killings were initiated and carried out by people doing the same thing you are. Today it's amplified 100-fold.
The pathologies of these individuals were mental illness but the truth is propaganda, forced on them ad nauseum by men of the cloth. By extreme sheer numbers, the most popular book in prison libraries is...the bible. For salvation and justification that however many they kill, there remains an open and welcoming gatekeeper in heaven if they only say yes, we accept the lord god as our only savior.
Sorry. It doesn't excuse you for responsibility of being a human being.
 
oakwilt said:
I've testified, as an expert witness, in more than 30 criminal trials involving christian fanatics and their treatments of fellow human beings. I've collected evidence and zipped-shut body bags of their victims. Many were diced and sliced enough to warrant quart-sized ZipLocks™ we had to purchase at Wal-Mart because local crime scene techs were wholly unprepared to deal.
The common denominating factors in all these horrible massacres were fundamentalist christian fanatics, quoting the Lord's "words" not at all unlike your attempts to spread this illness. In fact, word for word.
1 to 2 generations have passed since these weekly/monthly encounters with Holy Evil, but I don't forget. Listening the other day to a evangelist arguing for a parade permit to spread his lies (I continue to infiltrate hate groups), I couldn't help but notice his youth in addition to his itemic recall of born-again noteworthy history of "the 'war' on christianty, he appeared to forget about how often noteworthy historical mass-killings were initiated and carried out by people doing the same thing you are. Today it's amplified 100-fold.
The pathologies of these individuals were mental illness but the truth is propaganda, forced on them ad nauseum by men of the cloth. By extreme sheer numbers, the most popular book in prison libraries is...the bible. For salvation and justification that however many they kill, there remains an open and welcoming gatekeeper in heaven if they only say yes, we accept the lord god as our only savior.
Sorry. It doesn't excuse you for responsibility of being a human being.
Click to expand...

“By doing the same thing you are”. What am I doing? You have stated this more than once and I am not sure what it is you think I am doing.
 
Study your belief's history. And not from your church's version.

I'll excuse you on the basis of youth but until you witness some truths, refrain from the schizophrenic broken-record of 2,000 years of selective lying. We've heard it all before, only problem is..apparently you have not.
 
oakwilt said:
Study your belief's history. And not from your church's version.

I'll excuse you on the basis of youth but until you witness some truths, refrain from the schizophrenic broken-record of 2,000 years of selective lying. We've heard it all before, only problem is..apparently you have not.
Click to expand...
I understand where you are coming from, so I know that it is unproductive to continue this dialogue. I wish you the best.
 
Please begin to find and use your mind, a terrible thing to waste. You're a citizen of earth. Do something to make your time here mean something, instead of trashing it until you get to your promised land.
 
Been following along, it was all an interesting read, then here comes @Levi.CO makin' me spit my drink all over :risas:

I won't argue religion online because it would be like fighting with a stranger on the street about who feels happier today :cachetada:

But I do have an overload of opinions, so here is my not asked for addition - We all have a tendency to look at a group we are not a part of, see a small set of extreme behavior and judge the whole group by it. And we don't seem to do it in good ways, we don't see a Christian step in front of a bullet to save a child in the name of his beliefs and then say "wow, all Christians are benevolent and amazing people".

No, we watch the news and then think crap like:
"most Christians are rapey priests",
"most Muslims are violent terrorists",
"most "Black" people are robbers",
"most "white" people are overt racist supremacists"
"most poor people are lazy, entitled, and on the take"
"most Russians are liars and want to fool us"
and on, and on.

We generally don't, but we could go looking for good, and think the same thing in the other direction:
"most Christians are trying to be like Jesus in good ways",
"most Muslims are peaceful, and want to grow old and raise their kids like the rest of us without getting bombed",
"most "Black" people are understandably resentful over generations of being treated like they are less than, and just want to matter like everyone else seems to",
"most "white" people are trying to do the right thing, but have had some social advantages hidden from them for so many generations that they don't believe they exist anymore"
"most poor people are good hard working folks that keep getting the rug pulled out from under them"
"most Russians like Americans, and want to vacation at the Grand Canyon"

Or we could just take in both extremes and conclude that all people are BLAH, but that would be just as wrong. The truth about all these groups is that "People are... human" and that's individually complex.

Getting back to religion - The scientific social truth about religion, EVERY religion, when you look at a larger sampling of data, is that religion is not a source of good or bad, it is a catalyst that propels people in the direction they choose to go, good, bad, and blah.

I vote for heading whatever you perceive is the best direction before you, choose a good catalyst, change course when better presents itself, and bump others around you for good as you go.

Peace to the doubters, zealots, and everyone in between. Climb on.
 
I agree, and I like that you said "we" because no matter how we voted, we did this, we created a divided society that elevates vacuous celebrities instead of finding people with qualifications and moral character to do important jobs for us.
 
We had one for 8 years. We listened instead, to the right.
Never again. When you read their words or hear their rhetoric, stop them before this ever happens again. Especially the ones who claim a higher authority.
 
GreenstoneVT said:
Most people just need a gentle reminder that there is no "other" - we are all one. It's just an illusion.

https://qz.com/1196408/scientists-studying-psilocybin-accidentally-proved-the-self-is-an-illusion/

Maybe this virus has something to do with it.
https://www.livescience.com/61627-ancient-virus-brain.html
Click to expand...

Possibly, but if -
"the hallucination of consciousness is one we’re all having in tandem. When we agree about our hallucinations, we call it “reality,”"
- is actually true. Then I definitely don't want to find a drug that slips my brain permanently into an alternate hallcination that is not agreed upon, since I have a job, family and whatnot, that depends on me being plugged into the currently agreed upon reality. :frenetico:
 
FreeFallin said:
Possibly, but if -
"the hallucination of consciousness is one we’re all having in tandem. When we agree about our hallucinations, we call it “reality,”"
- is actually true. Then I definitely don't want to find a drug that slips my brain permanently into an alternate hallcination that is not agreed upon, since I have a job, family and whatnot, that depends on me being plugged into the currently agreed upon reality. :frenetico:
Click to expand...

But what if this reality is the hallucination? We all agree to hallucinate Santa, right? Taken together, the two articles suggest the possibility that we are all sick, that the virus has infected us all, leaving us with an inability to feel connected. Does society not perpetuate the ego's desire for separation? This wasn't about drugs as the paragraph after the one you quoted states:

"But there are other ways to experience reality, which you may have already glimpsed, even if only fleetingly. Sometimes our consciousness shifts. The boundaries of the self seem to become less rigid and we commune with another person or thing, as can happen during drug-induced epiphanies, sure—but can also happen when people fall in love, meditate, go out in nature, or experience a great meeting of minds."

I don't want to forego any of those last four things in order to maintain a grip on our current shared 'reality'. And in the following paragraph: "In The Book (pdf), philosopher Alan Watts writes that we aren’t individuals existing in lonely bodies. We’re a flowing segment in the continuous line of life. He and others—mystics, monks, poets (pdf), and philosophers from numerous traditions—argue that people are sad and hostile because we live with a false sense of separation from one another and the rest of the world. “This feeling of being lonely and very temporary visitors in the universe is in flat contradiction to everything known about man (and all other living organisms) in the sciences,” Watts wrote in The Book. “We do not ‘come into’ this world; we come out of it, as leaves from a tree.”"

As tree people, I think this is a very apt comparison.
 
John_KAYS said:
Now this same book can be understood and interpreted differently.
Click to expand...

You need to fix your analogy before it is relevant. If two thirds of the arborist certification documents were not written down, but oral traditions for hundreds of years before arborists got around to coming up with a written form of our language, and only then recorded in a language with only 22 characters in the alphabet, all of them consonants (like paleo-Hebrew), then the language left to become archaic and disused, then the documents crudely and badly translated into Greek, and from there into multitudes of other languages for which there are generally not enough common elements to properly translate, using poorly educated scribes who usually barely can read one of the languages, then sent it through several hundred years of picking and choosing which chapters of the documentation were to be thrown out on the basis of not quite fitting in with current "understanding" of arborist matters, a few more hundred years of being rewritten to reflect current views on what the Word of Arborists really means, followed by thousands and thousands of arborists preaching more than 2000 variations of what the Word of Arborists means in spite of the fact that none of them has any idea what the actual Word is, any more, since not one of them can even read our original manuscript's text... finally, NOW we can misinterpret this sacred document to our heart's content. Oh, but there's that little thing about OTHER documents that self-proclaimed arborist experts have come up with... some hundreds of years before we did, others a while later, but most from around the same time... that also have huge followings of true arborist believers who insist that their documents are as holy as our Word of Arborists... do we not even consider anything in those documents, because they don't reflect the current state of OUR one, true Word of Arborists? Do any of the arborist preachers know what language their Word of Arborist was spoken in at the time it was being written down? Do they even know what language their One True Son of Arborist spoke in daily life? Have they ever read one single official document, written in the several extant languages of the time, that leads them to certain knowledge that this one is the Word of Arborists and that one is pure gibberish?

Now, we're ready to interpret our arborist certification document differently. Let's start with the clause where we are to go down to the river and smash the skulls of our babies against the rocks, if we can't raise them to be good arborists that follow the letter of the law regarding the Word of Arborists document.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

New threads New posts

Kask Stihl NORTHEASTERN Arborists Wesspur TreeStuff.com Teufelberger Westminster X-Rigging Teufelberger
Back
Top Bottom