Cinching on Cocoon

SoftBankHawks

SoftBankHawks

Branched out member
Location
Japan
Hello - I have a question, as I tend to climb ddrt and srt together more and more I started using a 34mm ring for my large ring on the cambium saver, I clip a karabiner to my midline knot and cinch it up against the 34mm ring, it gives a nice flexibliity to chop and change between single and doubled. I'd rather like to use a pulley and start to explore some doubled rope techniques and pondered the strength of side loading a pinto or cocoon? What do you think?
I rarely climb on a trunk belay these days. Next week I'm visiting a test facility to try some drop testing on the cinched cambium saver. Has this been looked at already?
Thanks
 
I've often used a Pinto to put a stopper against since it's mid-line attachable. I usually run a 16 Strand E2E with 'biner on one side and a 'biner/Pinto on the other. Biner is the large ring, Pinto acts as the small. It makes it super easy to convert a base tie into a retrievable canopy TIP without even passing any rope over the new TIP...just leave slack between the base tie and the stopper knot.

I also employ a retrievable base tie that turns into a DdRT pulley system once I'm in the crown. It works like an AFS as the base tie and you retrieve by connecting the two ends of climbing line together before ascent. Once you're in the crown, just lanyard in and run the loop of rope until you pull up the base tie.

I would NOT side load a Cocoon. No sir!

Here's another alternative, though not remotely retrievable...

http://www.treebuzz.com/forum/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=348664&an=0&page=0#348664
 
Morning! Thanks for the comments. That's a neat trick folding the wrench up. Happy to see the ddrt srt switch system, I'm getting comfortable with that way of climbing. The splice end can also be tied off at any point in the crown, thinking on it as I write it may give lift to a weakened branch if the rope runs through a pulley up top....you see what I mean?? I didn't really get your retrievable base tie that turns into a ddrt system...could you draw or post a picture?
Why are you happy to side load a pinto and not a cocoon?
 
I read that wrong, you dont cinch the 16 strand pinto e2e just raise the whole loop up and then can retrieve from the ground. When you wrote stopper knot I read midline cinching knot. Lonniels, why are you happy to side a pinto? What are your thoughts on the cocoon?

Thanks
 
[ QUOTE ]

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I would NOT side load a Cocoon. No sir!
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[/ QUOTE ]

I second that. The Cocoon is way thinner in terms of Material at the Point where the sideloading would happen.
I use and like the Cocoon a lot and think in many ways it is the better Pulley than the Pinto, but not for sideloading.

Both great Pulleys in the End! ;)
 
Unlike the cocoon the pinto has very nice rounded edges on the side plates, i have side loaded the pinto many times and always inspected my knot and there has never been an issue
 
How are you loading the Pinto? Any Pictures? Seems to me you could be only working with a 5kn WLL or 1125 #

Tony
 
Just thinking out loud here.

If the overall rating for the pinto is 10kn, 5kn a side, are you not only loading half the pinto, hence, 5kn?

Would it be better to tie a stopper knot in the opposit configuration, with the rope leading down over the becket, which is rated at 10kn but loads the body of the pulley centrally?

I am not entirely convinced of my own argument!

What do you all think?

Tony
 
Not asking if it bothers anyone just interested in how the pulley is being loaded and thoughts on that.

No loaded questions I promise
smirk.gif


Tony
 
I would really like to see some break tests on this set up, as i have a set up for something that is very similar. I would think it would be fine. But without testing you can't be sure.
 
Someone told me today of a camera that monitors stress in metals....I want one. Thinking on it these past few days I can't bring myself to recommend cinching to one side of either pulley, it doesn't seem proper. I held the pinto sideways today with a stopper knot sitting on top and realised that that would happen occasionally. Ill drop test it at some point. In the meantime I need a way to raise up my splice for long ascents without 'side cinching'.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Not asking if it bothers anyone just interested in how the pulley is being loaded and thoughts on that.

No loaded questions I promise
smirk.gif


Tony

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't think it was loaded. :) I was just firing off a quick response on the pic from my phone.

Are you saying to thread the rope through the becket first, tie a stopper, then bring it over the top of the pulley and down?

That definitely seems like it would retain the most strength, but take a lot of yarding to get set up. I'd probably switch to a revolver and oval mallion friction saver with a stopper in it for midline convenience.
 
Either that or the just capture the fall of the rope between the bottom of the pulley sheave and the becket. That way you are loading the becket and keeping the pinto loaded along its major axis.

confused.gif
Just spouting off Ideas!

Tony
 
That sounds like a good idea in theory, Tony, but that would defeat the mid-line attach-ability of the configuration, and the line would need to be threaded through the becket, so one may as well use a ring. I still want to recreate your suggestion, just to see how it looks and performs.
 
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