- Location
- sunny Madison, WI
check out this ninja climb
- Thread starter Zac
- Start date
- Location
- In the Mitten...
What a great read, very well written.
Makes you wish you were rite there with them.
I would love to do something like that.
Thanks for posting, Zac
Makes you wish you were rite there with them.
I would love to do something like that.
Thanks for posting, Zac
- Location
- healdsburg, CA
What an adventure!
It is too bad that his descriptive analagies are almost completly focused on references to pornography, midgets, sexual perversion, and the like. In such a wonderous place, it is unfortunate that his mind is trained to use those things to compare to such a fantastic monument to the engineering feats of that day.
I suspect it is a sign of the times and that he is not so unique in American culture today.
Pornography, fashion, T.V., the antics of millionaire rock stars & movie stars, this is mainstream America today I guess.
Am I unique in noticing this? No one else on the TB who has commented on this post has made any remarks on this.
It is too bad that his descriptive analagies are almost completly focused on references to pornography, midgets, sexual perversion, and the like. In such a wonderous place, it is unfortunate that his mind is trained to use those things to compare to such a fantastic monument to the engineering feats of that day.
I suspect it is a sign of the times and that he is not so unique in American culture today.
Pornography, fashion, T.V., the antics of millionaire rock stars & movie stars, this is mainstream America today I guess.
Am I unique in noticing this? No one else on the TB who has commented on this post has made any remarks on this.
TreeCo
Carpal tunnel level member
[ QUOTE ]
Pornography, fashion, T.V., the antics of millionaire rock stars & movie stars, this is mainstream America today I guess.
Am I unique in noticing this? No one else on the TB who has commented on this post has made any remarks on this.
[/ QUOTE ]
Frans you sound like Jimmy Swaggart!
I mostly just looked at the photos.
Pornography, fashion, T.V., the antics of millionaire rock stars & movie stars, this is mainstream America today I guess.
Am I unique in noticing this? No one else on the TB who has commented on this post has made any remarks on this.
[/ QUOTE ]
Frans you sound like Jimmy Swaggart!
I mostly just looked at the photos.
- Location
- healdsburg, CA
I noticed a few more things.
One, they refused to allow people on the team who had been there before and knew of the hazards and pitfalls (no pun intended).
they used one (1) descent line with no back up.
The descent line had no edge protection.
When they traversed the rotten catwalks, he says how the leader went one way and he decided to go another, and then waited for the possibility to hear his team member's scream if he (team member) fell to his death.
They did not belay each other across those rotten catwalks. In fact no mention of belay was made at all.
The guy says he 'learned' how to ascend for the first time on this climb.
How much you want to bet that they would go running for help if something went wrong? At what expense?
I see this as a travesty in many different ways.
It would be good if the people in charge made a pictorial of the inner workings of this plant- it would be fasinating. because it truly is an awe inspiring place to see.
This narrative also is one of the worst 'ninja' climbs I have seen. Tottally unsafe, no regard for team work, and exposing any potential rescuers to immense personal hazard.
In the thread, 'dirty Jobs', (I did not read the whole thread) mention was made of the lack of safety gear on the job. Good grief! Was ANY technique done correctly in this 'ninja' climb?
How are we as climbers going to build respect in our trade with this kind of stuff going on?
One, they refused to allow people on the team who had been there before and knew of the hazards and pitfalls (no pun intended).
they used one (1) descent line with no back up.
The descent line had no edge protection.
When they traversed the rotten catwalks, he says how the leader went one way and he decided to go another, and then waited for the possibility to hear his team member's scream if he (team member) fell to his death.
They did not belay each other across those rotten catwalks. In fact no mention of belay was made at all.
The guy says he 'learned' how to ascend for the first time on this climb.
How much you want to bet that they would go running for help if something went wrong? At what expense?
I see this as a travesty in many different ways.
It would be good if the people in charge made a pictorial of the inner workings of this plant- it would be fasinating. because it truly is an awe inspiring place to see.
This narrative also is one of the worst 'ninja' climbs I have seen. Tottally unsafe, no regard for team work, and exposing any potential rescuers to immense personal hazard.
In the thread, 'dirty Jobs', (I did not read the whole thread) mention was made of the lack of safety gear on the job. Good grief! Was ANY technique done correctly in this 'ninja' climb?
How are we as climbers going to build respect in our trade with this kind of stuff going on?
TreeCo
Carpal tunnel level member
Re: check out this ninja climb
I didn't read the whole text Frans but you sound way out of line. Who asked for your review, anyway?
I didn't read the whole text Frans but you sound way out of line. Who asked for your review, anyway?
- Location
- Retired in Minneapolis
Treeco and Frans...chill or take it off-line. This tangent is going the wrong way.
- Location
- healdsburg, CA
I have edited my post to remove the personal comments directed at a forum member.
- Location
- Retired in Minneapolis
Thanks Frans...
- Location
- healdsburg, CA
[ QUOTE ]
Frans,
Please stop goggling porn terms and posting their definitions on an arborist fourm.
[/ QUOTE ]
O.K. I will remove the specifics.
This read is a very interesting dialogue of doing alot of things wrong in a climb. At least to me.
Frans,
Please stop goggling porn terms and posting their definitions on an arborist fourm.
[/ QUOTE ]
O.K. I will remove the specifics.
This read is a very interesting dialogue of doing alot of things wrong in a climb. At least to me.
- Location
- Retired in Minneapolis
If you Google "urban exploring' you'll find other folks who do this. Most aren't quite as reckless as the folks who went into the power station.
This is a link to an exploration in Minneapolis. This is the hospital that I was born in. When I showed it to my Mom she got a boot out of it. The hospital is located on the corner of Penn and Glenwood Ave. in north Minneapolis.
http://www.actionsquad.org/ripleys.htm
This is a link to an exploration in Minneapolis. This is the hospital that I was born in. When I showed it to my Mom she got a boot out of it. The hospital is located on the corner of Penn and Glenwood Ave. in north Minneapolis.
http://www.actionsquad.org/ripleys.htm
For one, I'm Australian and not American. That's likely even worse and reflects how much American culture we've adopted and consumed that it shows through so much in my writing.
You would also do well to separate literary elements of suspense and danger from exact happenings. I don't write literal accounts of every single event in minute detail so taking this overly seriously is quite pointless.
I write it to lean more towards entertaining than informative. If you're seeking a scholarly approach then head to www.vanishingpoint.ca instead and you'll be far happier. I write for myself and the small group of friends that I know enjoy the style in which I write. Obviously that doesn't appeal to you, tough.
Now to address your points. I'm not convinced this is a worthwhile exercise since your points are generated from the comfort of your armchair and my vague, detail deficient account:
--------------
Frans:
One, they refused to allow people on the team who had been there before and knew of the hazards and pitfalls (no pun intended).
Correct, we didn't go there seeking a tour and have someone hold our hand. We went there chasing adventure and excitement. Risk is an element of that which we accepted. My friends, as myself, find life more rewarding and enjoyable when lived at the edge of our comfort zone. Sometimes that ends badly and those consequences are an accepted risk. I find that I learn much more about myself and whatever it is I'm going when it's learned in such a situation. If you're the kind who prefers the tour guide, a map and gift shop then I'm jealous you're so easily satisfied.
-----------------
Frans:
they used one (1) descent line with no back up.
A single rope is an extremely common caving setup. Hell it's called Single Rope Technique for a reason. The rope was in excellent condition, quite new and well cared for. Backup? A backup rope or a backup anchor? Be more specific.
-----------------
Frans:
The descent line had no edge protection.
Now you're just wasting my time. Loook closely at the photos before you open your mouth. There is protection on the rope over the concrete edge, and rope around the rail on which the backup anchor is tied.
-----------------
Frans:
When they traversed the rotten catwalks, he says how the leader went one way and he decided to go another, and then waited for the possibility to hear his team member's scream if he (team member) fell to his death.
You've chosed to ignore the position of the third (3rd) person in this instance. The direction I travelled was relatively safe. I didn't need any help or spottage. The third person stayed closer to the first person as they crossed the floor. I'm not denying this was very dangerous without a belay, but oh my it must be comfy sitting there in your chair. I'm unconcerned about your opinion of our safety.
-----------------
Frans:
The guy says he 'learned' how to ascend for the first time on this climb.
I had done a lot of rope work, just never ascended. It's child's play for anyone comfortable on a rope. It's a short, single pitch using a full Petzl caving setup, under good supervision and instruction. We're not talking rocket science here pussy cat.
-----------------
Frans:
How much you want to bet that they would go running for help if something went wrong? At what expense?
Congratulations Dr Hypothetical, what if what if what if? You've no idea of the skill levels and self-rescue ability of the other 2 who attended (or myself for that matter) so feel free to sit there and postulate endlessly if that makes you feel superior. We all accepted the risks involved, and didn't expect anyone to be coming after us.
-----------------
Frans:
This narrative also is one of the worst 'ninja' climbs I have seen. Tottally unsafe, no regard for team work, and exposing any potential rescuers to immense personal hazard.
Quit talking out your [censored] about situations you know little about. You know sweet FA about the teamwork involved, or the safety precautions we did take. I'm not denying there are safety precautions we failed to implement but we were all happy with the levels of safety for most of the trip. To comment on teamwork is flat out ignorant. Perhaps if you'd been there I'd take you seriously when you question teamwork.
You're passing judgement on an incomplete exaggerated account written to be more entertaining than informative. There is the famous quote by Theodore Roosevelt which springs to mind right now:
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; because there is not effort without error and shortcomings; but who does actually strive to do the deed; who knows the great enthusiasm, the great devotion, who spends himself in a worthy cause, who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement and who at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly. So that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat.”
Enjoy your armchair, I'll be busy learning things for myself and even having a little fun on the way.
You would also do well to separate literary elements of suspense and danger from exact happenings. I don't write literal accounts of every single event in minute detail so taking this overly seriously is quite pointless.
I write it to lean more towards entertaining than informative. If you're seeking a scholarly approach then head to www.vanishingpoint.ca instead and you'll be far happier. I write for myself and the small group of friends that I know enjoy the style in which I write. Obviously that doesn't appeal to you, tough.
Now to address your points. I'm not convinced this is a worthwhile exercise since your points are generated from the comfort of your armchair and my vague, detail deficient account:
--------------
Frans:
One, they refused to allow people on the team who had been there before and knew of the hazards and pitfalls (no pun intended).
Correct, we didn't go there seeking a tour and have someone hold our hand. We went there chasing adventure and excitement. Risk is an element of that which we accepted. My friends, as myself, find life more rewarding and enjoyable when lived at the edge of our comfort zone. Sometimes that ends badly and those consequences are an accepted risk. I find that I learn much more about myself and whatever it is I'm going when it's learned in such a situation. If you're the kind who prefers the tour guide, a map and gift shop then I'm jealous you're so easily satisfied.
-----------------
Frans:
they used one (1) descent line with no back up.
A single rope is an extremely common caving setup. Hell it's called Single Rope Technique for a reason. The rope was in excellent condition, quite new and well cared for. Backup? A backup rope or a backup anchor? Be more specific.
-----------------
Frans:
The descent line had no edge protection.
Now you're just wasting my time. Loook closely at the photos before you open your mouth. There is protection on the rope over the concrete edge, and rope around the rail on which the backup anchor is tied.
-----------------
Frans:
When they traversed the rotten catwalks, he says how the leader went one way and he decided to go another, and then waited for the possibility to hear his team member's scream if he (team member) fell to his death.
You've chosed to ignore the position of the third (3rd) person in this instance. The direction I travelled was relatively safe. I didn't need any help or spottage. The third person stayed closer to the first person as they crossed the floor. I'm not denying this was very dangerous without a belay, but oh my it must be comfy sitting there in your chair. I'm unconcerned about your opinion of our safety.
-----------------
Frans:
The guy says he 'learned' how to ascend for the first time on this climb.
I had done a lot of rope work, just never ascended. It's child's play for anyone comfortable on a rope. It's a short, single pitch using a full Petzl caving setup, under good supervision and instruction. We're not talking rocket science here pussy cat.
-----------------
Frans:
How much you want to bet that they would go running for help if something went wrong? At what expense?
Congratulations Dr Hypothetical, what if what if what if? You've no idea of the skill levels and self-rescue ability of the other 2 who attended (or myself for that matter) so feel free to sit there and postulate endlessly if that makes you feel superior. We all accepted the risks involved, and didn't expect anyone to be coming after us.
-----------------
Frans:
This narrative also is one of the worst 'ninja' climbs I have seen. Tottally unsafe, no regard for team work, and exposing any potential rescuers to immense personal hazard.
Quit talking out your [censored] about situations you know little about. You know sweet FA about the teamwork involved, or the safety precautions we did take. I'm not denying there are safety precautions we failed to implement but we were all happy with the levels of safety for most of the trip. To comment on teamwork is flat out ignorant. Perhaps if you'd been there I'd take you seriously when you question teamwork.
You're passing judgement on an incomplete exaggerated account written to be more entertaining than informative. There is the famous quote by Theodore Roosevelt which springs to mind right now:
"It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; because there is not effort without error and shortcomings; but who does actually strive to do the deed; who knows the great enthusiasm, the great devotion, who spends himself in a worthy cause, who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement and who at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly. So that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat.”
Enjoy your armchair, I'll be busy learning things for myself and even having a little fun on the way.
- Location
- Madison, Wi
Frans, and the majority of us here have plenty of background to question and discuss the validity, and safety of your crews techniques.
Your first post reads volumes about the attitude you have for yourself and others.
Your first post reads volumes about the attitude you have for yourself and others.
- Location
- In the Mitten...
I still liked the story
One of the TreeBuzz members comes to my site, preaches to me with what they said above and asks me to come here and offer my opinion. Here I am.
I've no doubt you know more about rope techniques than I do, and never claimed as such. To make claims about our setup without knowing much about it (an in Frans case barely even looking at the photos and seeing the rope protection) irks me.
Let's drop the preachiness and snipe then and make this constructive. I'm willing to learn, how should we have rigged it? The drop is ~50ft. There is a 1inch diameter iron (rusty) hook in the bricks 10ft above you and directly above the slot. You cannot reach it unaided. Otherwise there is the rusty iron guard rail which is quite weak near the top, but seems pretty strong at the base.
A narrow corridor joins the room to the wheelpit cavity. The only anchor remotely close is the big iron door at the corridor entrance. It hangs from one hinge, but if you detached it and lay it across the entrance it might work.
The concrete floor is uncracked (on the surface at least) and same for the bricks. All of this is ~100 years old. How would you have rigged it more safely?
Lasty, remember you must carry in everything (between 3 people) and be suitably unencumbered to sneak past / hide from workers, site managers and potentially security. You're also carrying 3 still cameras, tripods, lenses, 2 inflatable boats, a small pump, change of clothes each, a video camera and an underwater housing. I wish they gave us problems like this at school
Regarding my attitude, I'm quite comfortable with it and it has served me pretty well so far. Tips? Alves your sig speaks volumes about you!
I've no doubt you know more about rope techniques than I do, and never claimed as such. To make claims about our setup without knowing much about it (an in Frans case barely even looking at the photos and seeing the rope protection) irks me.
Let's drop the preachiness and snipe then and make this constructive. I'm willing to learn, how should we have rigged it? The drop is ~50ft. There is a 1inch diameter iron (rusty) hook in the bricks 10ft above you and directly above the slot. You cannot reach it unaided. Otherwise there is the rusty iron guard rail which is quite weak near the top, but seems pretty strong at the base.
A narrow corridor joins the room to the wheelpit cavity. The only anchor remotely close is the big iron door at the corridor entrance. It hangs from one hinge, but if you detached it and lay it across the entrance it might work.
The concrete floor is uncracked (on the surface at least) and same for the bricks. All of this is ~100 years old. How would you have rigged it more safely?
Lasty, remember you must carry in everything (between 3 people) and be suitably unencumbered to sneak past / hide from workers, site managers and potentially security. You're also carrying 3 still cameras, tripods, lenses, 2 inflatable boats, a small pump, change of clothes each, a video camera and an underwater housing. I wish they gave us problems like this at school
Regarding my attitude, I'm quite comfortable with it and it has served me pretty well so far. Tips? Alves your sig speaks volumes about you!
- Location
- In the Mitten...
[ QUOTE ]
One of the TreeBuzz members comes to my site, preaches to me with what they said above and asks me to come here and offer my opinion. Here I am.
[/ QUOTE ]
Welcome to the Buzz, anyway.
One of the TreeBuzz members comes to my site, preaches to me with what they said above and asks me to come here and offer my opinion. Here I am.
[/ QUOTE ]
Welcome to the Buzz, anyway.
- Location
- In the Mitten...
Hey Butch, howd you make the jumpy dude?
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