Charlotte's OPEN INTERNATIONAL INVITATIONAL TCC
- Thread starter UrbanLegend
- Start date
easyphloem
Branched out member
- Location
- Louisville, KY
Re: Charlotte\'s OPEN INTERNATIONAL INVITATIONAL TCC
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KS,
What is the proper procedure for transporting a victim who
Has suffered a major trauma? Find out what is recommended in a real rope rescue situation.
Unless the rescue climber has proper training for neck brace/ body stabilizing every FA class that I've taken says that the victim should not be moved.
Don't believe all of the rumors that you here about the event.
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I like the idea of incorporating more realism into the AR, but I wonder if the response to "...talk to the EMT's on the phone, let them know the climber took a big swing and fall and may have sustained major injuries...Do they want me to take the climber down?"...would be "... do what you feel is best.."
Had any of the climbers who mentioned something similar to the above question (quite a few in our group) received the potentially more accurate response of "..EMT's do NOT want you to move the victim.." it would certainly have thrown quite a wrench into the scores for the rest of the day.....
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Rest assured Rich, After Josie's AR, we all agreed to not say anything to the ground tech, so that nothing would be different for the next two groups. The ground tech actually had to take a leave after the third group, and was replaced with instructions to only repeat verbatim what the previous ground tech had told competitors up to that point.
I think it was a great idea, poorly executed. I was in the middle of it, scoring shitty score after shitty score thinking how pissed I would be if I was a competitor working my azz off to get that dummy down, only to learn I didn't get any points after touching the dummy, and -3 for bringing the dummy down to the ground.
Kind of like changing the rules mid-game, but not telling the opponents. Ary took it the right way, I hope others did too. Like I said, it's a great idea, and a good conversation starter.
The CAA this year did harken back to the earlier days of TCCs where the sharing of information and gear and techniques sits in the forefront, along with the competition. Many times throughout the two days I would look around and marvel at the dedication and absolute professionalism of all of the volunteers, techs, and judges.
It was hard work all weekend, and I didn't get paid a cent (In Money). I came back to Louisville a richer man for all the good people I know and new friends I met this weekend (Banjo, you're not in that list of new friends, I just don't think we are a good fit).
SZ
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
KS,
What is the proper procedure for transporting a victim who
Has suffered a major trauma? Find out what is recommended in a real rope rescue situation.
Unless the rescue climber has proper training for neck brace/ body stabilizing every FA class that I've taken says that the victim should not be moved.
Don't believe all of the rumors that you here about the event.
[/ QUOTE ]
I like the idea of incorporating more realism into the AR, but I wonder if the response to "...talk to the EMT's on the phone, let them know the climber took a big swing and fall and may have sustained major injuries...Do they want me to take the climber down?"...would be "... do what you feel is best.."
Had any of the climbers who mentioned something similar to the above question (quite a few in our group) received the potentially more accurate response of "..EMT's do NOT want you to move the victim.." it would certainly have thrown quite a wrench into the scores for the rest of the day.....
[/ QUOTE ]
Rest assured Rich, After Josie's AR, we all agreed to not say anything to the ground tech, so that nothing would be different for the next two groups. The ground tech actually had to take a leave after the third group, and was replaced with instructions to only repeat verbatim what the previous ground tech had told competitors up to that point.
I think it was a great idea, poorly executed. I was in the middle of it, scoring shitty score after shitty score thinking how pissed I would be if I was a competitor working my azz off to get that dummy down, only to learn I didn't get any points after touching the dummy, and -3 for bringing the dummy down to the ground.
Kind of like changing the rules mid-game, but not telling the opponents. Ary took it the right way, I hope others did too. Like I said, it's a great idea, and a good conversation starter.
The CAA this year did harken back to the earlier days of TCCs where the sharing of information and gear and techniques sits in the forefront, along with the competition. Many times throughout the two days I would look around and marvel at the dedication and absolute professionalism of all of the volunteers, techs, and judges.
It was hard work all weekend, and I didn't get paid a cent (In Money). I came back to Louisville a richer man for all the good people I know and new friends I met this weekend (Banjo, you're not in that list of new friends, I just don't think we are a good fit).
SZ
easyphloem
Branched out member
- Location
- Louisville, KY
Re: Charlotte\'s OPEN INTERNATIONAL INVITATIONAL TCC
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Beautiful park, amazing trees, awesome climbers, CAA = First class event. I even got to work the notorious AR event. What more could you ask for? ( maybe a drill for the GRCS, what you think SZ?). Had a great time and will be back. Thanks for the hospitality Scotty Olson. You da man!
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It was good to meet you, Rodney. Hope to see you out in Kentucky sometime!
SZ
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Beautiful park, amazing trees, awesome climbers, CAA = First class event. I even got to work the notorious AR event. What more could you ask for? ( maybe a drill for the GRCS, what you think SZ?). Had a great time and will be back. Thanks for the hospitality Scotty Olson. You da man!
[/ QUOTE ]
It was good to meet you, Rodney. Hope to see you out in Kentucky sometime!
SZ
easyphloem
Branched out member
- Location
- Louisville, KY
Re: Charlotte\'s OPEN INTERNATIONAL INVITATIONAL TCC
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Also had a great time except for a bad oyster that went marching through Georgia at about 3:30 AM Sunday.
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I stayed away from the Oysters because I didn't feel like gambling knowing I would be judging in the Masters the next day. My Sister-in-Law got ill from the Oysters as well.
Hope the south is rising again, Bubs.
Great to see you this weekend.
SZ
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Also had a great time except for a bad oyster that went marching through Georgia at about 3:30 AM Sunday.
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I stayed away from the Oysters because I didn't feel like gambling knowing I would be judging in the Masters the next day. My Sister-in-Law got ill from the Oysters as well.
Hope the south is rising again, Bubs.
Great to see you this weekend.
SZ
- Location
- Charlotte, NC
Re: Charlotte\'s OPEN INTERNATIONAL INVITATIONAL TCC
Ok
I did not tell the groundie of the event, Everyone was told the same thing.
I did do this as a wake up call, I also don't think Josie would have brought the climber down in real life at all .......
Listen to the little voice in your head.
And yes leave me in the tree if you don't know. EMS has ways to deal with everything involved with accidents.
I've been working with some rescue folks the last couple of years and they all tell me basically the same things( set us some good tips that we can put our own gear in....... get to and stay with victim for support (as long as your not a second victim) and communicate as much as possible (can not make it down the driveway traffic in the area GPS for bigger properties pick up will meet you here etc)
And lets not forget it is a golden hour they go for.
We all no not move a car crash unless the car is on fire same in a tree, if they are not bleeding out just keep them company and deliver good words never how bad it is.
All done with much love this weekend
I have much think skin so bring it.
Again thank you Richard Darr for not knowing and playing like I asked you too. the stupid new groudie on a three person crew.
Ok
I did not tell the groundie of the event, Everyone was told the same thing.
I did do this as a wake up call, I also don't think Josie would have brought the climber down in real life at all .......
Listen to the little voice in your head.
And yes leave me in the tree if you don't know. EMS has ways to deal with everything involved with accidents.
I've been working with some rescue folks the last couple of years and they all tell me basically the same things( set us some good tips that we can put our own gear in....... get to and stay with victim for support (as long as your not a second victim) and communicate as much as possible (can not make it down the driveway traffic in the area GPS for bigger properties pick up will meet you here etc)
And lets not forget it is a golden hour they go for.
We all no not move a car crash unless the car is on fire same in a tree, if they are not bleeding out just keep them company and deliver good words never how bad it is.
All done with much love this weekend
I have much think skin so bring it.
Again thank you Richard Darr for not knowing and playing like I asked you too. the stupid new groudie on a three person crew.
- Location
- rhode island
Re: Charlotte\'s OPEN INTERNATIONAL INVITATIONAL TCC
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(Banjo, you're not in that list of new friends, I just don't think we are a good fit).
SZ
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I agree. I'll be writing a letter of condemnation to the North Carolina voter fraud office on your behalf.
[ QUOTE ]
(Banjo, you're not in that list of new friends, I just don't think we are a good fit).
SZ
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I agree. I'll be writing a letter of condemnation to the North Carolina voter fraud office on your behalf.
R
rich_h
Guest
Re: Charlotte\'s OPEN INTERNATIONAL INVITATIONAL TCC
[ QUOTE ]
Ok
I did not tell the groundie of the event, Everyone was told the same thing.
I did do this as a wake up call, I also don't think Josie would have brought the climber down in real life at all .......
Listen to the little voice in your head.
[/ QUOTE ]
Considering that I know next to nothing about victim care compared to a trained 911 operator or EMT I always leave any decision regarding victim care to the professionals. When you instruct your ground guy to call 911 to get them involved it is my understanding that 911 will stay on the phone until the EMT's arrive. When I asked questions regarding whether to move the victim I was not asking my ground guy their opinion...I was asking the 911 professional to tell me exactly what they wanted me to do....
If the message you wanted to send was that we as climbers really don't know much about patient care (excluding you Glen Peroni
) and that we should rely on the pro's...well I think you missed the fact that quite a few people tried to do exactly that.... The message I was left with is that the pros may sometimes give us misleading information during an accident event
I applaud the effort to mix things up and send a message....but considering the distances that many of the climbers traveled and the associated costs I would imagine that there may be a better pulpit from which to send the message....
Charlotte TCC as always was a ton of fun and the jewel of the non-sanctioned TCC circuit. The efforts of all of the volunteers were monumental as usual. The AR was the same for everyone so there really isn't much to complain about....but it is helpful to talk this out in order to help climbers in future TCC's.
Thanks again for the excellent time and I look forward to doing it all again next year !!
[ QUOTE ]
Ok
I did not tell the groundie of the event, Everyone was told the same thing.
I did do this as a wake up call, I also don't think Josie would have brought the climber down in real life at all .......
Listen to the little voice in your head.
[/ QUOTE ]
Considering that I know next to nothing about victim care compared to a trained 911 operator or EMT I always leave any decision regarding victim care to the professionals. When you instruct your ground guy to call 911 to get them involved it is my understanding that 911 will stay on the phone until the EMT's arrive. When I asked questions regarding whether to move the victim I was not asking my ground guy their opinion...I was asking the 911 professional to tell me exactly what they wanted me to do....
If the message you wanted to send was that we as climbers really don't know much about patient care (excluding you Glen Peroni
I applaud the effort to mix things up and send a message....but considering the distances that many of the climbers traveled and the associated costs I would imagine that there may be a better pulpit from which to send the message....
Charlotte TCC as always was a ton of fun and the jewel of the non-sanctioned TCC circuit. The efforts of all of the volunteers were monumental as usual. The AR was the same for everyone so there really isn't much to complain about....but it is helpful to talk this out in order to help climbers in future TCC's.
Thanks again for the excellent time and I look forward to doing it all again next year !!
treebing
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Detroit, Mi.
Re: Charlotte\'s OPEN INTERNATIONAL INVITATIONAL TCC
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The CAA this year did harken back to the earlier days of TCCs where the sharing of information and gear and techniques sits in the forefront,
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, as usual, the charlotte comp exposed me to so many different ways of climbing and introduced me to so many excellent people. Odis and the open ascent aspect of the comp was interesting as well, watching marie lou climb 65 feet... faster than many of the competitors climb 50 was great. seeing Collin Bugg climb 65 feet within 3 seconds of the fastest 50 foot footlock time, wow, he looked like he was riding a bike. Everyone had very different systems set up. The AR event was classic Scotty pranksterism at its best and it attempted to tackle an important question about the AR event in relation to speed and real life that really needs to be had. I hear the issue raised at every comp that I have ever been to but no one has ever made a move to address it. It is obviously a difficult question and logistically very complicated to pull off.
I love how when climbers started to protest a bit when the AR results were announced Scotty just said. "first off, remember, this is Charlotte...".
[ QUOTE ]
The CAA this year did harken back to the earlier days of TCCs where the sharing of information and gear and techniques sits in the forefront,
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, as usual, the charlotte comp exposed me to so many different ways of climbing and introduced me to so many excellent people. Odis and the open ascent aspect of the comp was interesting as well, watching marie lou climb 65 feet... faster than many of the competitors climb 50 was great. seeing Collin Bugg climb 65 feet within 3 seconds of the fastest 50 foot footlock time, wow, he looked like he was riding a bike. Everyone had very different systems set up. The AR event was classic Scotty pranksterism at its best and it attempted to tackle an important question about the AR event in relation to speed and real life that really needs to be had. I hear the issue raised at every comp that I have ever been to but no one has ever made a move to address it. It is obviously a difficult question and logistically very complicated to pull off.
I love how when climbers started to protest a bit when the AR results were announced Scotty just said. "first off, remember, this is Charlotte...".
- Location
- Charlotte, NC
Re: Charlotte\'s OPEN INTERNATIONAL INVITATIONAL TCC
Thanks Kevin.
Rich I would have in hind sight, told him he lost the call.,
.....
Thanks Kevin.
Rich I would have in hind sight, told him he lost the call.,
.....
- Location
- Charleston, SC
Re: Charlotte\'s OPEN INTERNATIONAL INVITATIONAL TCC
So question, is it more important to address suspension trama, or unknown injury. The situation had the victim on a clear decent without handling him/her. Waiting for 15 min arrival time. Or do we let them hang for EMT, which can't do anything, then wait for high angle to set lines and rescue. What is the best for the victim?
So question, is it more important to address suspension trama, or unknown injury. The situation had the victim on a clear decent without handling him/her. Waiting for 15 min arrival time. Or do we let them hang for EMT, which can't do anything, then wait for high angle to set lines and rescue. What is the best for the victim?
- Location
- Taranaki, New Zealand
Re: Charlotte\'s OPEN INTERNATIONAL INVITATIONAL TCC
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Charlotte TCC as always was a ton of fun and the jewel of the non-sanctioned TCC circuit.
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Hey Rich.
How can you say that Charlotte is the jewel when you've never been to a Taranaki Open!? Not saying it isn't or anything - just saying come on over so that you can compare.
At the Auckland Competition two months back our AR scenario was that the climber had been bitten by a zombie.
It's fair to say that knowledge of what to do with a pre-zombiefication proto-zombie is not universal in the Arb community. The 111 operator was of no help either.
[ QUOTE ]
Charlotte TCC as always was a ton of fun and the jewel of the non-sanctioned TCC circuit.
[/ QUOTE ]
Hey Rich.
How can you say that Charlotte is the jewel when you've never been to a Taranaki Open!? Not saying it isn't or anything - just saying come on over so that you can compare.
At the Auckland Competition two months back our AR scenario was that the climber had been bitten by a zombie.
It's fair to say that knowledge of what to do with a pre-zombiefication proto-zombie is not universal in the Arb community. The 111 operator was of no help either.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
Re: Charlotte\'s OPEN INTERNATIONAL INVITATIONAL TCC
Wounded by a proto-zombie? That's simple shoot the victim in the head with an automatic weapon. What self respecting arborist doesn't keep a CAR-15 or an M4 in the truck?
Wounded by a proto-zombie? That's simple shoot the victim in the head with an automatic weapon. What self respecting arborist doesn't keep a CAR-15 or an M4 in the truck?
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
Re: Charlotte\'s OPEN INTERNATIONAL INVITATIONAL TCC
Ary I don't have the answer to that but one of the reasons you don't move an unconscious victim is that broken bones can cause significant internal injuries. It's not just about spinal injury.
The suspension trauma question is a good one. We could all stand to learn more about it.
Ary I don't have the answer to that but one of the reasons you don't move an unconscious victim is that broken bones can cause significant internal injuries. It's not just about spinal injury.
The suspension trauma question is a good one. We could all stand to learn more about it.
R
rich_h
Guest
Re: Charlotte\'s OPEN INTERNATIONAL INVITATIONAL TCC
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Charlotte TCC as always was a ton of fun and the jewel of the non-sanctioned TCC circuit.
[/ QUOTE ]
Hey Rich.
How can you say that Charlotte is the jewel when you've never been to a Taranaki Open!? Not saying it isn't or anything - just saying come on over so that you can compare.
At the Auckland Competition two months back our AR scenario was that the climber had been bitten by a zombie.
It's fair to say that knowledge of what to do with a pre-zombiefication proto-zombie is not universal in the Arb community. The 111 operator was of no help either.
[/ QUOTE ]
I may stand corrected....Zombie bites at Taranaki ??? If that isn't the true spirit of a non-sanctioned comp I don't know what is !! Here's hoping I can make the next one !
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Charlotte TCC as always was a ton of fun and the jewel of the non-sanctioned TCC circuit.
[/ QUOTE ]
Hey Rich.
How can you say that Charlotte is the jewel when you've never been to a Taranaki Open!? Not saying it isn't or anything - just saying come on over so that you can compare.
At the Auckland Competition two months back our AR scenario was that the climber had been bitten by a zombie.
It's fair to say that knowledge of what to do with a pre-zombiefication proto-zombie is not universal in the Arb community. The 111 operator was of no help either.
[/ QUOTE ]
I may stand corrected....Zombie bites at Taranaki ??? If that isn't the true spirit of a non-sanctioned comp I don't know what is !! Here's hoping I can make the next one !
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
Re: Charlotte\'s OPEN INTERNATIONAL INVITATIONAL TCC
Oh right, like they have zombies in NZ!
Everybody knows they're endemic to the US... and the apocalypse hasn't even HAPPENED yet for cryin' out loud.
...although I bet they could throw a hell of an non-sanctioned TCC there.
Oh right, like they have zombies in NZ!
Everybody knows they're endemic to the US... and the apocalypse hasn't even HAPPENED yet for cryin' out loud.
...although I bet they could throw a hell of an non-sanctioned TCC there.
- Location
- balancing on the edge . . . .
Re: Charlotte\'s OPEN INTERNATIONAL INVITATIONAL TCC
Maybe NOT in NZ, but here in Atlanta we have races for them.
http://runforyourlives.com/locations/atlanta-georgia/zombies/
Maybe NOT in NZ, but here in Atlanta we have races for them.
http://runforyourlives.com/locations/atlanta-georgia/zombies/
Riggs
Participating member
- Location
- Bryn Mawr , Pa.
Re: Charlotte\'s OPEN INTERNATIONAL INVITATIONAL TCC
In a comp , where people prepare for what is , and has been is changed than . all should know . I always called AR aerial ridiculdous. As a scorer , looking at the score sheet of a ITCC , than you must be ignoring the score sheet . Climbers prepare for the score sheet , to change that isn't fair . Granted , you can change things , but you have to keep it fair . From what I heard , it wasn't fair . Unless the score sheet was differnet. Why put a situation in that would not be able to be judged on ? not the time to prove a point ...or if it was , every one should have had a heads up . Forest gump sh*t , stupid is as stupid does. seminars are for that , scenarios outside the score sheets are just plain unfair. What the judges do ? ignore score boxes ? stupid
In a comp , where people prepare for what is , and has been is changed than . all should know . I always called AR aerial ridiculdous. As a scorer , looking at the score sheet of a ITCC , than you must be ignoring the score sheet . Climbers prepare for the score sheet , to change that isn't fair . Granted , you can change things , but you have to keep it fair . From what I heard , it wasn't fair . Unless the score sheet was differnet. Why put a situation in that would not be able to be judged on ? not the time to prove a point ...or if it was , every one should have had a heads up . Forest gump sh*t , stupid is as stupid does. seminars are for that , scenarios outside the score sheets are just plain unfair. What the judges do ? ignore score boxes ? stupid
Riggs
Participating member
- Location
- Bryn Mawr , Pa.
Re: Charlotte\'s OPEN INTERNATIONAL INVITATIONAL TCC
on one hand your training people to get victims out of a tree , and than on the other hand ,your like wait till rescue people get there . Joke . Get the guy to the ground , unless your in a city , probally gonna get a kid vollying. What point are you proving? stupid . Bleeding , get the guy down . sixteen year old kid showing up on an ambulance is gonna argue ? really .oh no the 380 lb. paramedic will go up the tree and save him . send me the video. What's up with that ? tell me Please
on one hand your training people to get victims out of a tree , and than on the other hand ,your like wait till rescue people get there . Joke . Get the guy to the ground , unless your in a city , probally gonna get a kid vollying. What point are you proving? stupid . Bleeding , get the guy down . sixteen year old kid showing up on an ambulance is gonna argue ? really .oh no the 380 lb. paramedic will go up the tree and save him . send me the video. What's up with that ? tell me Please
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
Re: Charlotte\'s OPEN INTERNATIONAL INVITATIONAL TCC
I'm pretty sure that whatever else anybody thought after that event, they will think carefully about moving an unconscious victim no matter where they are... which is exactly what they should do. Circumstances will dictate the decision now rather than 'just getting the victim out of the tree' as ISA rules specify. It's not about rules it's about a rescue scenario... the rescuer isn't supposed to have all the information.
I think TCC AR is kind of ridiculous too but you see some pretty sharp innovation in AR, it's one of the most popular events. Plus, it's still a demonstration of skill and creativity regardless of whether it closely mimics a real AR.
The point behind Charlotte is not to parrot every other comp. It's to have fun and share ideas, to promote climber development, to allow people to socialize and form new friendships... competition is secondary.
It doesn't matter that no one knew about the change in AR as long as NO one knew, that's fair. They were judged the same and scored the same against the same standards, no one had an advantage.
I'm pretty sure that whatever else anybody thought after that event, they will think carefully about moving an unconscious victim no matter where they are... which is exactly what they should do. Circumstances will dictate the decision now rather than 'just getting the victim out of the tree' as ISA rules specify. It's not about rules it's about a rescue scenario... the rescuer isn't supposed to have all the information.
I think TCC AR is kind of ridiculous too but you see some pretty sharp innovation in AR, it's one of the most popular events. Plus, it's still a demonstration of skill and creativity regardless of whether it closely mimics a real AR.
The point behind Charlotte is not to parrot every other comp. It's to have fun and share ideas, to promote climber development, to allow people to socialize and form new friendships... competition is secondary.
It doesn't matter that no one knew about the change in AR as long as NO one knew, that's fair. They were judged the same and scored the same against the same standards, no one had an advantage.
