Chainsaw training levels

Phil

Phil

Carpal tunnel level member
Location
Oak Lawn, IL
We (the gov. agency I work for) are toying with the idea of establishing an in-house training system which would designate employees/volunteers as either Feller A/B/C or sawyer A/B/C...or something similar, based on their skill level with a chainsaw. This is mostly for volunteers who assist in vegetation removal and want to be able to use chainsaws instead of hand-loppers and bow saws.

My questions are:

1) If you/your company uses a similar setup, what criteria do you use to distinguish one level to the next? Is it based on time around a saw…say 6months of being a sawyer A before you go for a Sawyer B designation? Or is it simply passing a field/paper test of some sorts? Or both
2) Do you have a checklist of itemized skills which the sawyer must demonstrate/explain…if so, would you mind sharing for a reference?

I will end up creating a new program but I feel this concept has been done many times over and I can pull some good time tested ideas from people. If you have any input, please share.
 
Arbormaster was what i went through in college...still believe it was a good unexpected certification.
 
A strictly time based criteria (similar to promotion or tenure in a Unionized environment) is a bad idea, imo. Hard to correlate the passage of time with acquired proficiency. Otherwise, all old folks would be geniuses...
 
I agree with that. it could be the situation of 2 5 yr veterans, one with 1 yr repeated 5 times the other with 5 yrs of continued growth and development.

Without some sort of demonstrated proficiency there is no way to tell which is which.
 
Agree.

HSE in the UK has a pretty good program of competencies that are building blocks for good chainsaw use. You'll need to do some research, from what I gathered the competencies have just changed.

I've emailed HSE a couple of times and I've gotten prompt and thorough replies. They were very helpful.
 
its amazing that nothing like that has been developed in the US... not becasue it would be so easy and do so much good... Just becasue the ISA or TCIA could make some $ on it by adding it to their laundry list of certifications. Problem is none of them know much about how to use a chainsaw...
 
[ QUOTE ]
I agree with that. it could be the situation of 2 5 yr veterans, one with 1 yr repeated 5 times the other with 5 yrs of continued growth and development.

Without some sort of demonstrated proficiency there is no way to tell which is which.

[/ QUOTE ]

We have training in place now and we always field (hands on) test folks. The competency of the participant is left up to the instructor who oversees the test though. We are wanting to create an itemized list of sorts for folks testing so that the exam and program in general are universal across multiple instructors/years.

Using our designations of sawyer A/B/C, we would limit the max dia. size of tree an individual would be allowed to cut down. Think land restoration and forest work...not so much urban work.
 
I recently attended a workshop on the science of training, presented by Lantra Awards. They're UK Based, and offer a series of chainsaw training modules. Although my class didn't address chainsaw use in our particular program, I was very impressed with their approach to training people to safe competency in high risk occupations.
 
The competencies required at each level need to be spelled out. A statement of competency, level achieved and whether that is sufficient to qualify or requires further training/practice of the specific competency.

Beyond dbh what other criteria are you using be which to limit the classification?
 
Hi all, you are correct in that professional chain saw users have to hold a certificate of competence. It is recommended before taking the test that you attend a training course, typically five days. Day one is spent on risk assessment and PPE then moves on to the saw covering all the safety features, off the top of my head, eight of those. chain identification and sharpening, guide bar maintenance, plug changes and condition, replacement of starter cord and re coil spring, removal of side covers and clean, identify and change drive sprocket and clutch. The risk assessment requires the candidate to identify and mitigate against not just hazards to himself or others but also to the environment, wild life water courses ext. The day usually concludes with safe starting procedures and perhaps cross cutting.
The next four days candidates learn 3 basic felling techniques , upright, leaning toward and leaning away. There are time when a tree gets hung up, intentionally or otherwise so take down techniques manual and mechanical assist are also taught. Typically there may be 6 -8 candidates on a course to tree availability is a must. I have established commercial harvesting sites where I train. Putting candidates into a stand of spruce with a max felling diameter of 15 inches, I pair them up in a buddy system and the as team fell every tree in there line, five rows down another pair and so on. the point is to be tidy and accurate with the cuts and directional felling, speed comes with practice. The felling cuts are formalized. there position, angle and depth are all considerations. At the end of the day accounting for the kit and any maintenance that arises is a team responsibility, just like risk assessment.

At the end of the five days an assessor from the City and Guilds group aka NPTC puts the candidate through there ticket,starting with maintenance. Only if he or she passes can they progress to the felling unit. Its all very civilized the assessor is a time served pro that has had to undergo a series of tests and training courses to qualify and once qualified has to attend regular updates if he or she wants to stay on register.

We work a system of guide bar length starting at fifteen inches. Once the candidate has obtained this then the idea is he can work to that length consolidating his learning until such time as he or she wishes to upgrade to bar and a half or twice guide bar. There have as some one said in an earlier post been some changes but I suspect mostly in title only as the bones remain the same.

As a result of a sports injury I don't train any more and have removed my self from the register so could be a little out of date but we are required to have tickets for all the kit, for example I used to asses for ground skidders and loaders ext.

I have some pictures of a training site on my phone and if I can work out how to post I will.

Regards Ben
 
We run two classes as of now. First is Basic Chainsaw Training. We cover all the fundamentals...PPE, kickback, maint. etc. Passing a classroom exam first, then a field test at a later date, the trainee is certified to cut up to a 6" tree. Saws used are MS 261...no bigger.

Second class is "Advanced" Chainsaw Training, which covers revues of all safety procedures, Maint. saw handling, hazard assessment, barber chairs, spring poles etc. Upon completion of classroom and subsequent field testing, the trainee will be allowed to cut up to a 12" tree. I put advanced in quotes because compared with professional arborists, this level would still be considered remedial.

beyond the dia. restriction and max saw size, we encourage trainees to use sound judgement and to recognize when to ask for help if they aren't comfortable with a particular tree.
 
Five days for saw training is very elaborate. It sounds like a thorough program. Pulp cutting was my first exposure to tree feller training and it was nice to have a controlled, highly predictable timber to work with (Red Pine)

Most of what we cut at work now is buckthorn and honeysuckle which is why we cap the saw size at the MS 261 for volunteers.
 
Game of Logging. Many have "borrowed" from this training program. You should steal their curriculum as many "trainers" have done and pretended they invented everything themselves. People with minimal integrity and less originality.

In this country any swinging dick with a big mouth can be an expert trainer.
 
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Game of Logging. Many have "borrowed" from this training program. You should steal their curriculum as many "trainers" have done and pretended they invented everything themselves. People with minimal integrity and less originality.

In this country any swinging dick with a big mouth can be an expert trainer.

[/ QUOTE ]Mark, did "game of logging" invent the content of their curriculum? Or were they one of the first who "borrowed" everything important from those who actually figured it out on their own first but did not... I don't know, protect their intellectual rights?

And just to be politically correct you can also have a big gash and a big mouth and be an expert whatever.

Mark I percieve your keystroke tone is angry, sorry the skiing is so terrible. Imagine all the snow if it had not rained. Over 2" of rain in a week here.wtf
 
I don't know how it is for any others, but some of the smaller trees can be really tricky.. Of course the consequences of screwing up on a small tree vs a large tree can be very different.
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Game of Logging. Many have "borrowed" from this training program. You should steal their curriculum as many "trainers" have done and pretended they invented everything themselves. People with minimal integrity and less originality.

In this country any swinging dick with a big mouth can be an expert trainer.

[/ QUOTE ]Mark, did "game of logging" invent the content of their curriculum? Or were they one of the first who "borrowed" everything important from those who actually figured it out on their own first but did not... I don't know, protect their intellectual rights?

And just to be politically correct you can also have a big gash and a big mouth and be an expert whatever.

Mark I percieve your keystroke tone is angry, sorry the skiing is so terrible. Imagine all the snow if it had not rained. Over 2" of rain in a week here.wtf

[/ QUOTE ]

Frash,

Soren Erickson and Tim Ard should be at least listed in the credits when someone uses their template. I think it would be safe to say Soren learned a thing or two from others in Sweeden before revolutionizing saw training in this country. A lot of the format is original thinking. What makes my keystroke tone angry are people who borrow without giving credit where credit is due, pretending they are the inventors. Shameless commerce, more greed.

Ya this weather is not ideal, this is the only things left for outdoor recreation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRdZp293hpA

OAO,

M
 
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A lot of the format is original thinking. What makes my keystroke tone angry are people who borrow without giving credit where credit is due, pretending they are the inventors.


[/ QUOTE ]

I put on a chainsaw training class for a former employer because I was appalled at the way the other employees where operating in the field. After the class was over, the manager pulled me in to his office and informed me that he had been to dozens of training seminars in his career, including arbormaster programs, and that what I just presented to the crews in my ad-hoc training day was better in content and execution than anything he had been involved in previously. At this point I had been working in arboriculture for 2 years. I've never been to a game of logging but I did have FISTA, as well as other formalized training and my on the job experience, and my common sense. Maybe I revolutionized training in the country...or maybe I stole it from somebody I've never heard of...you can't see it but I'm twisting the end of my exceptionally long, thin mustache while deviously chuckling at the ease at which I have just robbed someone of their intellectual contribution to the world.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Game of Logging. Many have "borrowed" from this training program. You should steal their curriculum as many "trainers" have done and pretended they invented everything themselves. People with minimal integrity and less originality.

In this country any swinging dick with a big mouth can be an expert trainer.

[/ QUOTE ]

Funny and true!

there is no protection for the "intellectual property" of making up a new cut with the chainsaw to my knowledge.. You'd never be able to prove that you were the first to invent it, in the first place, and then how would enforce the ownership right?

its not a beetle's melody and you can't start making them in the garage...

That's just the way of it... and the lack of giving credit where credit is due is pretty darn distasteful... its actually amazing to me that there can be so little understanding by the "industry experts"... The emperor has no clothes.... there .... I SAID IT!
 
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