Camp in Old Growth?

I hope you’re joking.. oldgrowth remnant forests are not playgrounds. Removal of dead limbs impacts much more than the tree. They are hosts to dozens of species and don’t need hairless apes trampling all over them. FWIW there is no such thing as an oldgrowth tree. It’s the name of a type of ecosystem, which is nothing more than isolated dwindling fragments, a place of humility when visited, not a playground
This planet is host to countless species that don't need any hairless apes trampling them, eating them, and choking them out with the countless toxic byproducts that we all contribute to putting out there DAILY!

The earth doesn't belong to us, but we all still treat it as such.
 
What if, and this might just be crazy, but what if we extend that sentiment out beyond a few tiny remnants of old forest?

Do you pearl clutchers buy industrially produced food and use fossil fuels for non life saving purposes? Do you benefit from dammed rivers? Eat fish? Every instance of each of those things does a world of damage beyond what is happenening during one of these climbs.

Did any of you old guys have a hand in cutting down some of the old trees? At least I will always be able to say that I had no hand in that.

Do ya'll realize how much ancient tropical forest has been cut, and continue to be cut to be planted with rubber trees? Do you use tires? I wish you wouldn't, and I wish people would stop eating fish for a couple of decades, and let the oceans recover. I wish people would stop using fossil fuels for anything but certain heavy equipment/major infrastructure needs not including electrical generation for non life saving purposes. I wish they would undam all the rivers, and that people would start sharing more of what they do have, like enormous homes that sit mostly empty most of the time, not to mention all the other hoarded resources.

I have nothing but reverence for these old trees, but I hold the rest of the natural world just as dear, and unless our entire species starts making serious moves, there is a real possibility that our situation could become so dire, that many/most humans don't survive the next 200 years. I want to touch a little bit of the old world and know a little of the former glory and splendor that many of you got to see and touch.

Remember that some of the most magnificent, protected giant sequoia groves are only 500-600 years old, and had burned to the ground long before any europeans had travelled beyond the Atlantic coasts of North America. They have grown back to majestic stature in a few hundred years, and they will do so again if they can survive us. But the old trees don't have to survive, and because of climatic conditions, it's likely many won't. But seeds will become old trees again one day. I have planted many trees and protected many more, and will continue to do so. I will leave behind a forest that I planted in a place that I don't think will ever see those trees cut down. And I will NEVER cut down an old growth tree.

By your continued participation in the modern world, you will inflict greater harm on the natural world every day than a single climber, climbing a single tree, a single time. The way you talk about the og trees has some serious "damn kids, get off the lawn" vibes.

And yea, the way they were climbing and hauling didn't make much sense to me, but they made it work I guess. Still looked weird.
I don’t understand the linking logic here. I agree with much of what you’re saying. I see this more akin to plowing a road into the oldgrowth canopy for nothing more than the experience.
Down in SW Washington we had a tower crane built for canopy research, they offered tickets periodically to the public. Much less impact.
We are talking about a whole new tourist industry based on a new recreational sport.

I have the same thoughts relating to Microsoft’s efforts to reopen 3 mile island to power their AI systems. Many times progress is taking a few steps back and reflecting upon the path ahead before stepping forward
 
I don’t understand the linking logic here. I agree with much of what you’re saying. I see this more akin to plowing a road into the oldgrowth canopy for nothing more than the experience.
Down in SW Washington we had a tower crane built for canopy research, they offered tickets periodically to the public. Much less impact.
We are talking about a whole new tourist industry based on a new recreational sport.

I have the same thoughts relating to Microsoft’s efforts to reopen 3 mile island to power their AI systems. Many times progress is taking a few steps back and reflecting upon the path ahead before stepping forward
Yea, I don't like it either, but what should be done about it, in your highest vision for what's possible? This always comes back to the same basic shit, and nobody likes being told what they can and can't do, and how they should live their life. When people submit themselves en masse to the concept of human brotherhood and cooperation, and actually figure out the best way to move forward so as to minimize suffering for all life, then we will rapidly and radically transform the earth, as quickly as we destroyed it. Until then, we are all captives to and of the current point in history that we find ourselves and all the shit that that entails
 
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Apparently it's a going effort based on tripadvisor




example reply by Leo the owner:
AdventureLeo
AdventureLeo

Thank you for sharing your fantastic experience at Silver Falls State Park! We're delighted to hear that you and your sons enjoyed the Old-Growth Tree Climbing adventure. It’s wonderful to know that the adventure was worth the investment and that it catered to the different levels of climbing experience in your family. It's great that your son who has rock and ice climbing experience found this to be a unique and enjoyable challenge. We're also pleased that our guide was able to support your other son and make his experience positive, even though he decided not to climb all the way to the top. We strive to ensure that every participant feels comfortable and has a good time, no matter their skill level or comfort with heights. We're thrilled that you loved every minute and found the climbing rhythm easy to get into, and it's a bonus that you all weren't sore the next day! Sounds like you all should try our more challenging experience next time, check out the sunset climb, tree camping, or add additional trees for more challenge and additional options! Thank you for the high recommendation. We hope to see you and your sons again for another adventure in the treetops.
time, check out the sunset climb, tree camping, or add additional trees for more challenge and additional options! Thank you for the high recommendation. We hope to see you and your sons again for another adventure in the treetops.
 
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A pic from Leo's Tripadvisor sale pitch. I can't help but wonder how the unique flora and fauna up in the canopy and in the soil below feels about this conscientious arborist's utter disrespect?

Screenshot 2024-10-01 at 4.49.08 AM.png
 
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A pic from Leo's Tripadvisor sale pitch. I can't help but wonder how the unique flora and fauna up in the canopy and in the soil below feels about this conscientious arborist's utter disrespect? Fuck Leo!

View attachment 95568
I'm gonna go out on a limb here, and guess that the unique flora and fauna of that area feel about leo the same that all of the other now/soon to be extinct species feel about humainty in general. We are a plague to the natural world in general and we should all live each day in full aknowledgment of our collective crimes against life itself.

Remember that when you start your truck, or buy almost anything. Remember it when you think about doing almost anything for fun, use electricity. Think especially hard about every meal you eat.

Fuck all of us.

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone"
 
I'm gonna go out on a limb here, and guess that the unique flora and fauna of that area feel about leo the same that all of the other now/soon to be extinct species feel about humainty in general. We are a plague to the natural world in general and we should all live each day in full aknowledgment of our collective crimes against life itself.

Remember that when you start your truck, or buy almost anything. Remember it when you think about doing almost anything for fun, use electricity. Think especially hard about every meal you eat.

Fuck all of us.

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone"
Just had a lovely breakfast made with kale and salsa from the garden, eggs from our chickens, and local venison. As for fun? Too hot to work today so I am gonna walk up to the garden and do some breath work this morning and take a walk with the dogs in the cooler airs down in holler when it warms up. Or I could go find an OG down in the holler and pop it’s cherry?
 
Just had a lovely breakfast made with kale and salsa from the garden, eggs from our chickens, and local venison. As for fun? Too hot to work today so I am gonna walk up to the garden and do some breath work this morning and take a walk with the dogs in the cooler airs down in holler when it warms up. Or I could go find an OG down in the holler and pop it’s cherry?
No iron in your chicken coop? How did you dig that soil? What took down the deer?

We are all guilty, but I ain't about that guilt trip til somebody else gets high and mighty about some shit without checkin themselves first.

I know you're a good man Erik. Try killing with kindeness. I think you'll find it grows on ya, brother.
 
The tree I climbed with Pacific Tree Climbing Institute was a research tree but I believe it was mostly VOG and moisture transport, not bio-system oriented. Looks like a one time pre-rig for climbing and hammocks like PTCI did.

It might be an idea for someone appropriate to reach out and inquire about assessing the bio damage concerns raised here. Sort of a box requiring some sort of a check mark going forward. Get some expertise involved.
 
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I'll keep faith in the redemptive capacity of the human spirit. The nihilistic death-cult rhetoric is really too much.
Did you forget that quickly what I said in post #23? I said exactly that.

I didn't profess anywhere that I don't believe in anything- quite the contrary- and I never suggested that our species should be wiped from the earth. Don't put that evil on me.
 
It might be an idea for someone appropriate to reach out and inquire about assessing the bio damage concerns raised here. Sort of a box requiring some sort of a check mark going forward. Get some expertise involved.
No expert here, but I have spent almost my entire life around redwoods and have seen with my own eyes the damage that turning these irreplaceable creatures into an amusement park does. The soil/understory damage that the foot traffic alone is inflicting is enough to impact the health of an OG forest/tree. Now the entire Jones family can, for the right price, pull an overnighter and run rough shod in the canopy of an ancient 300 footer.
 
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No expert here, but I have spent almost my entire life around redwoods and have seen with my own eyes the damage that turning these irreplaceable creatures into an amusement park does. The soil/understory damage that the foot traffic alone is inflicting is enough to impact the health of an OG forest/tree. Now the entire Jones family can, for the right price, pull an overnighter and run rough shod in the canopy of an ancient 300 footer.
No expert here, but I have spent my entire life on the planet Earth, and I have seen with my own eyes the damage that turning this irreplaceable ecosystem into a mine/amusement park/waste dumping facility does. The soil damage that tilling and other currently used agricultural practices; the damage to the ocean and atmosphere that our commercial activities are inflicting are enough to impact the health of an OG planetary ecosystem.
Now the entire Jones family can, for the right price, do whatever the fuck they want, regardless of the consequences for the rest of us.

I am with you bud, almost 100%, but there are a lot of stupid people out there who aren't even trying to get it- just look at how many people are planning to vote for trump for example.
 
We could tell this Leo and the guest, to be conscientious of tree and environment damage or over intrusion, by not wearing unnatural perfume or to be care not to break even small seemingly unnecessary branches.

Many times it seems the cliche American thing to do is all or nothing, in the sense of “my way or the highway”.
Why cannot it be that there are a selection of OG trees that only reasonable people are allowed to climb, for the respectable immersive experience?
Yes, I know deadwood branch trunk cavities offer habitat and other natural ecosystem benefits

One could say the earth is devolving regardless of human, non-moral causation.
Yes, I know deadwood branch, trunk cavities offer habitat and other natural ecosystem benefits, but can often cause systemic internal rot.
So why not have these select trees encouraged to be climbed, to preserve them as cultivated specimens, where they can be preserved, and cared for trees, as we see in a municipal park. Some parts of Europe has a good record of caring for OG trees.
That would double, as recreation and study. As to have a natural and control group.

On the topic of conscious environmental hurt, why do we not see more talk of the open conspiracy of the automobile industry, and the fact that vehicles could easily be offering 3 times the MPG, and the few that have figured ways to do this, were shut down or silenced permanently.
I think the EPA or other governing bodies, don’t actually care about the environment, and are intent on bringing about climate change more rapidly. To have more serious reasons to further subjugation via oppression. Because they answer to an elite, that serve a higher power, that have another purpose.
 
I read comments in the trip advisor reviews about special care being taken during the climb to avoid environmental damage. Can't say I'm an expert on the soil compaction from foot traffic on the root system of a doug fir. Pretty sure there's no scrambling around the canopy, more like preset line leads to edge of tree boat. PTCI used flat web style straps for the tip rigging and maybe for the tree boats too IIRC. But I think onsite expert assessment would be good.

Who wants to do a hidden camera expose ;) Or hidden in plain sight. Helmet cam.


edit - if anyone wants to get serious about this issue there's a source of historical data and tree sites to be analyzed from PTCI's operations with perhaps a decade of post climbing recovery time - two sites that I'm aware of. A scientific opportunity for the taking.
 
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I am confused by the outrage expressed in this thread. Is it the commercialization of this activity or the activity itself that is being objected to? In 2023 @Zebco Kid asked about ropes for climbing old growth Redwood and people just offered advice. Clearly I am missing something.

Good morning, All.

In a couple weeks I’m heading off to the real Northern California to climb an old growth Redwood. I am expecting the tree to be about 300 feet. I have ropes, but none of them are going to be long enough.
 
We have a former world champion tree near me. It's been climbed by a few people I know. She's old and tired and shows her age. I could climb her if I wanted but I don't. I think she's earned that. I say that but I suppose I'm a hypocrite. I don't necessarily want to climb in any of the famous stands of ancient trees but I'd sure love to get in a 300' mature specimen from the west coast. I'm not sure what that makes me. Perhaps a hypocrite maybe. I wouldn't do it commercially. I'd ask a friend to pick a tree and take me. Doesn't have to be Lonely Doug but I'd really appreciate just being in the canopy in some woods, the likeness I've never seen. Maybe this isn't relevant or maybe its just my mind simplifying it. During a NAOM in colonial Williamsburg they did a Guinness Book hammock in the tree thing in an awesome Beech Tree. A couple of us were convinced it was gonna kill the tree. To this day I haven't seen any effect. Really glad because it would have been an awful consequence for a silly mention in a stupid book. This is an interesting conversation. It brings out opinions and statements very different from what the buzz had been in the past. It's interesting, enlightening, and kind of surprising all at the same time. Peculiar times we live in.
 

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