Break Away Lanyard Question

kstreehuggerco · Feb 17, 2015

or have we overlooked the obvious?

macswan · Feb 17, 2015

probably have better luck cutting your lanyard with the saw you are using. I imagine it would be tough to react fast enough in a failure situation.

jmaher · Feb 17, 2015

kstreehuggerco said:
or have we overlooked the obvious

I suppose..

Tom Dunlap · Feb 17, 2015

When I've thought about a situation where I would want a break away lanyard one of the first criteria is that the trigger or release is 100% passive/automatic.

If things go pear-shaped in an instant I don't want to rely on a trigger or cutting. Too many variables

tuttle · Feb 17, 2015

If your under tension, obviously in this scenario, cutting with your silky could end in disaster, swinging with saw, and your other line goes on front of you.

I know that you are ignoring the shrinkwrap idea, but give it s try, it's so easy and you can design and gauge the perfect breakaway.

jmaher · Feb 17, 2015

tuttle said:
If your under tension, obviously in this scenario, cutting with your silky could end in disaster, swinging with saw, and your other line goes on front of you.

I know that you are ignoring the shrinkwrap idea, but give it s try, it's so easy and you can design and gauge the perfect breakaway.

Certainly not ignoring it my man. Ive seen you pass on some excellent information and ideas.
Also, you bring up a good point about swinging around with silky in hand, granted. My intention was more to show how fast a rope can be severed under tension, i suppose. (re: sort of agreeing with treehugger)
I still like the idea of the aircraft buckle. Id also like to think that if I was in a situation where i thought a breakaway lanyard was necessary.. I would be fairly trigger happy. Therein, helping to mitigate the reaction time? I dunno.

Richard Mumford-yoyoman · Feb 17, 2015

monkeylove said:
Thinking way out side the box, what about a pair magnets (maybe Richards). If they could hold a safe weight then I think that maybe they could also be quickly released by just quickly pulling/pushing/slapping at them at an angle. Just a thought but untried yet.

ATTRACTIVE idea there Frank.

P.S. I do like the secure but quick ideology. I'd probably go with something other than my magnets.....you slap them and they will probably bite you back.

monkeylove · Feb 17, 2015

True Rich, I now they have bitten me once or twice.

Richard Mumford-yoyoman · Feb 17, 2015

monkeylove said:
True Rich, I now they have bitten me once or twice.

Yes, little bastards! Try making a few of them.

Treetopflyer · Feb 18, 2015

I lost my little black mag so I'm not getting bit much these days

Richard Mumford-yoyoman · Feb 18, 2015

Treetopflyer said:
I lost my little black mag so I'm not getting bit much these days

Damn, how did you loose it? PM me, I'll get you a red one.

frashdog · Feb 18, 2015

Here is a scenario again...
Tree fails you are in with lanyard on.
Near by tree your tip is in holds you, via rope/harness/lanyard thus holding the tree that failed from fully falling, with you in the middle getting a squeeze.

Due to the failed tree's mostly vertical orientation at this point there was not enough force to release the "fuse" (shrink wrap/key chain carabiner/what ever) now you can not reach a saw, maybe it fell. A simple under tension emergency release mechanism would be perfect! We have them in kite boarding and sky diving, life's depend on them to not release when not needed and release when needed, they do work! We are not trying to re invent the wheel here.

macswan · Feb 18, 2015

frashdog said:
Here is a scenario again...
Tree fails you are in with lanyard on.
Near by tree your tip is in holds you, via rope/harness/lanyard thus holding the tree that failed from fully falling, with you in the middle getting a squeeze.

Due to the failed tree's mostly vertical orientation at this point there was not enough force to release the "fuse" (shrink wrap/key chain carabiner/what ever) now you can not reach a saw, maybe it fell. A simple under tension emergency release mechanism would be perfect! We have them in kite boarding and sky diving, life's depend on them to not release when not needed and release when needed, they do work! We are not trying to re invent the wheel here.

That's where the knife would get played for me

tuttle · Feb 18, 2015

I doubt very much you would have the time to release the buckle, and the fact you would be in full scale panic and logic would be to grab something not release, other sports areas are different based on the time at hand.

A failing falling tree is a completely different scenario, imagine diving out of a plane with an elephant attached to your back, trying to release the buckle he is sat on.

We are talking milliseconds, not seconds or minutes.

tuttle · Feb 18, 2015

macswan said:
That's where the knife would get played for me

Imagine being pulled in two directions, with odd sounds, trying to get your knife out? You could be dead by the 2secs mark.

tuttle · Feb 18, 2015

Magnets will not do it, and anything which involves metal, weight or other, could be taking its toll on you when the force is released.

macswan · Feb 18, 2015

tuttle said:
Imagine being pulled in two directions, with odd sounds, trying to get your knife out? You could be dead by the 2secs mark.

The scenario described sounded like a slow failure as opposed to a sudden one.

SRTsteve860 · Feb 18, 2015

i dont like break away, because i (as im sure everyone else) when im on a spar, i like to prop one knee up against the trunk and keep one leg straight. i brace off my knee, which acts like a lever/fulcrum of sorts, and as i lean back there is a "camming" action like in a compound bow, while i might only be applying a little vertical weight to that leg, the physics of leaning back into a lanyard with the knee braced will multiply that. Itd be simple to find out the load at that point, just have a strain guage installed between the lanyard and D ring and maybe design the breakaway to those loads.

Another idea would be implementing something like an emergency seat belt cutter; a design with a plastic body, recessed and protected blade, that rides right at your hip installed on your line. if failure occurs, it could be as simple as pulling up or away, bringing the knife edge to the rope, and as the tree fails and lanyard tightens up, the rope will be severed quickly. could almost design a self deploying system if a second guy line is attached, have it run back to your safe TIP, as the tree fails, the line tightens up, and severs the lanyard.

-Steven

MikePowers321 · Feb 18, 2015

SRTsteve860 said:
i dont like break away, because i (as im sure everyone else) when im on a spar, i like to prop one knee up against the trunk and keep one leg straight. i brace off my knee, which acts like a lever/fulcrum of sorts, and as i lean back there is a "camming" action like in a compound bow, while i might only be applying a little vertical weight to that leg, the physics of leaning back into a lanyard with the knee braced will multiply that. Itd be simple to find out the load at that point, just have a strain guage installed between the lanyard and D ring and maybe design the breakaway to those loads.

Another idea would be implementing something like an emergency seat belt cutter; a design with a plastic body, recessed and protected blade, that rides right at your hip installed on your line. if failure occurs, it could be as simple as pulling up or away, bringing the knife edge to the rope, and as the tree fails and lanyard tightens up, the rope will be severed quickly. could almost design a self deploying system if a second guy line is attached, have It run back to your safe TIP, as the tree fails, the line tightens up, and severs the lanyard.

-Steven

This is one of the reasons I went with a loop of throwline on my D ring. I figured it was certainly strong enough to maneuver freely when cutting without too much anxiety. If the tree (or lead) fails, and your tie in point/lanyard combo keeps it from completely failing, you can nick it with the handsaw and be free to swing (hopefully not too violently) over to your tie in. Now if the tree fails completely and breaks the throwline, chances are it will be a bit violent but in my opinion, a decent option. Its better than being sandwiched in between two 5,500lb ropes on a failing tree (or lead).

I assume that the double fisherman's (or whatever you tie) in the throwline will decrease strength a bit as well? Probably smart to lower your tie in point a bit for some extra security as well.