Brand/company Q's...Is Notch owned by Sherrill? What brands are worth/not-worth buying from?

Holy smokes.... Some of this reading is crazy..
FOLKS! Just because two products look identical & have different names on the side does not mean things are "stolen"!!!! Where on Earth are these assumptions coming from.. You'd think, considering the gear intensive trade we are in, people would know this..
 
We stole the JetStep? Thats laughable. The JetStep is a Sherrill Inc design, engineered through a partnership with Harken.

Y'all can always feel free to fact check these statements with me first if you want to, just shoot me a text.
 
bonner1040 said:
We stole the JetStep? Thats laughable. The JetStep is a Sherrill Inc design, engineered through a partnership with Harken.

Y'all can always feel free to fact check these statements with me first if you want to, just shoot me a text.
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Sorry I take everything back I really didn't mean to blame, in fact I'm pretty new and don't know who it is and what it is, I just wanted to say that these are completely identical products, I don't really Knows or care who was first etc, sorry sorry
 
Hi all. New guy here. Wanted to chime in on a few things. I'm not an arborist, just a rec climber doing a little clean up around the house on occasion. Been lurking for years, but for once I feel like I actually have something of value to submit.

I can't really give a lot of detail, but I work in design/r&d for a foreign company in the US, so I have some insight into the design and engineering process.

In response to @eyehearttrees original post.
The fact that CMI's micropulley seems so light is truly a testament into the engineering that goes into it. Your Chinese pulley is heavier built, but barely rated any higher - it means they either over build it to cover lack of validation or analysis, or it's bigger because the alloy isn't as strong or consistent. Alpine climbing, rock climbing, wilderness rescue, etc requires the lightest gear possible. You are carrying all that stuff with you... Super high end jackets keep you warm in the coldest conditions while being as light weight and as thin as possible. But they are really expensive. Sure some people buy them as status symbols, but they are expensive because the materials are top notch, there's tons of r&d that goes into it, and the quality control is top notch.

My observations about China and manufacturing: China isn't all bad, and manufacturing in China doesn't mean bad. But high quality out of China usually means the parent company has a heavy hand in quality control.

Chinese metals seem to typically be inferior, but only when they aren't spec'd properly and with an understanding of equivalency.

China and the Chinese govt basically don't acknowledge IP from outside China unless the company really knows what they are doing, so the knockoff culture is rampant.

People always say stuff like things were "probably made in the same factory". The problem is that oftentimes it might be, but design and manufacturing are separate disciplines, and sometimes when a Chinese company makes their version of something they are making for someone else, they might not know why some decisions were made and so little things... Small changes in thickness, bend radius, or whatever might end up in the end product being noticably inferior.

As for companies stealing ideas from other companies... Yeah that's crappy. Especially if it's taking the idea from a little guy and leveraging your company strength against it. But while I love to root for the underdog as much as anyone else, sometimes people in different places have the same ideas. Less than a year ago I was finalizing the details on a patent with our IP team when they emailed me that a competitor had just been granted a patent for virtually the same idea.

And in that vein, any company who isn't buying their competitor's products and learning every little thing they can from it isn't doing their due diligence, and won't stay competitive.

Thanks for reading the rant, hope that made sense.

Happy climbing everyone.
 
Hey, @DumpyMcDoodleface! Welcome to the TreeBuzz forum! I think you are going to like it here! That was an outstanding first post, thanks for sharing your insights.

I just wanted to tell you that you get my vote for the forum member with the funniest screen name. I laughed out loud when I read it, so thanks for that. Have a great day, and I hope to read more from you. Thanks.

Tim
 
Thanks @TimBr it started because of how you can't seem to use the internet anymore without logging in with Facebook or signing up for a newsletter... So I made some throw aways... Same here, can't look at photos or attachments without logging in... But then I kind of grew attached to old dumpy so here I am.

This industry really blows my mind because of how much things have changed even in the last few years since I started climbing. And so many of the big players are right here on this forum. It really hits all the right spots for me.

Back to the subject of the post, Notch is particularly interesting to me. It's a house brand, but not. And in an industry which many of the products are life support, they have many of their products made by other industry leaders and not just anyone. Which leads me back to another point about Chinese brands...

There are seemingly dozens of outfits making the same stuff in China, and like @bonner1040 said, there are "good people that make quality goods and crappy people that make crappy goods."

For example: I can buy a whatsit from 6 different sellers and every one will be a little different, even though they are using the exact same photos to sell it. If I love the one from seller "Whatsits R Us" and I order another from them, it might be terrible. Or maybe it's also awesome, but a year later, there's no trace of them.

When I buy something made by a reputable company, I pay more... But I can expect that whatever dealer I buy it from, I'm getting the same product of similar quality, and they will stand by their product - even if said company had it's product made in China.

And when it comes to climbing, I'd rather wait for a good sale and buy something I can trust for a bit more than the stuff that's questionable.

Cheers and happy climbing!
Dumpy
 
What dumpy said. I've bought some of the nameless Chinese stuff from eBay and Ali baba. Sometimes it was ok, sometimes garbage. Notch may be made in China, but they seem to exercise a level of quality control. I haven't had any problems with my notch products, carabiners and micro pulleys.
 
@Hosocat; Thanks for your post. That is nice to hear.

Welcome to the TreeBuzz forum, just in case I have not said that already. I think you are going to like it here, and I hope to read much more from you. Take care.

Tim
 
Thanks for the insight @DumpyMcDoodleface. Without comparing Notch's quality and design to anyone else I'll offer these last two points that I feel do all the differentiating necessary.

If you'd like to discuss anything about our brand, products, design, marketing or manufacturing with a principal– you can call me, Nick Bonner, directly on my personal cell phone at 440.989.0444. Or drop me an email anytime via nick@treestuff.com

Lastly, as a company we stand behind all of our products with a lifetime warranty and I stand behind them personally. You will never find a customer who contacted me and was refused the service they deserved.
 
Here's my two cents... I don't like seeing and I'm deeply saddened that our industry has become a hotbed of infighting. This is unproductive and detrimental to everyone. There are a lot of good hard working people throughout this industry trying to earn a decent living for themselves and their families. I respect that and I also respect sport/recreational tree climbers and the favorable impact they are having on our environment and the fragile eco-systems they put themselves at great risk to research and protect. In the few short years since I became a self-equipped recreational climber, I've done a lot of personal research and I'm truly a self-proclaimed gear junkie. Is this shit expensive? Hell-f'ing-ya, but am I confident when it comes to putting my life on the line, relying on the quality and reputation of the manufacturers and retailers, hell-ya to that too.
 
bonner1040 said:
Thanks for the insight @DumpyMcDoodleface. Without comparing Notch's quality and design to anyone else I'll offer these last two points that I feel do all the differentiating necessary.

If you'd like to discuss anything about our brand, products, design, marketing or manufacturing with a principal– you can call me, Nick Bonner, directly on my personal cell phone at 440.989.0444. Or drop me an email anytime via nick@treestuff.com

Lastly, as a company we stand behind all of our products with a lifetime warranty and I stand behind them personally. You will never find a customer who contacted me and was refused the service they deserved.
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Hey thanks for the response, @bonner1040 ! I hope it didn't seem like I was bashing Notch. While I have basically zero experience compared to these guys, the one Notch product I have seems well made, and I'm currently (and very anxiously) awaiting the arrival of my Sentinel harness!

I was talking about China in that buying from a brand who stands behind their product makes the location of manufacturing kind of a moot point.

And while there are clearly some anti Sherrill people out there hating on TreeStuff by association, the only thing that could make me any happier with my service so far is more free stickers! Just kidding... But seriously, some logo stickers would be awesome.
 
The Sentinel is a sweet ride. I got the chance to take one up for a day and enjoyed it. It’s light and easily adjustable. Figuring out the buckles may take a few repetitions, but they’re smooth action once you have the motions down. Let us know what you think!
 
Crimsonking said:
The Sentinel is a sweet ride. I got the chance to take one up for a day and enjoyed it. It’s light and easily adjustable. Figuring out the buckles may take a few repetitions, but they’re smooth action once you have the motions down. Let us know what you think!
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I'm really anxious about the sizing though. I ordered a size 1 - but i'm at the limit on the large size, which makes me worried about it going on over stuff. I've seen several reviews though that if I were to choose the 2, I'd be swimming in the leg pads.

Maybe this will be the final push to trim down~ but let's be honest, it's work sometimes to stay where I am. I'll be sure to post a review or something once I get it.
 
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