Be weary the under bid

Moved to Florida looking to be a climber for a central Florida based tree company, but all was not as expected.

I arrived down here January 15th of 2015 and corresponding with a particular gentleman running a tree company, unnamed, for about a year before I made the leap, got down here, met up with him to find out some horror stories about his last crew and Foreman that he let go.

Suffice it to say I was to be the new Foreman, and I said to myself it's probably time anyway. A few days later we met at his shop where and I waited patiently for him to arrive. 45 minutes later he was there with the keys and upon opening the bay door I laid my eyes on what was to be the beginning of a tree company, a single running lawnmower on a truck and trailer sitting next to a broken down lawn mower and a bench with a few pulled apart chainsaws.

It was at this point that I learned not only was I not to simply be a climber, but being a foreman for this company was out of the question as well as the fucking company didn't exist in the first place. Two weeks I'm busting my ass to clean up the shop, reassemble tools, fix trucks and trailers, I'm finally able to set out with a single truck and trailer and my climbing gear.

Having been in the industry for quite some time up until this point I knew better than to hammer myself right out the gate, especially with the promise of a crew. So about 100 miles southwest we had our first good size tree removal. We get there and who should show up but a couple of landscapers as my ground crew.

And once again , at this point I pretty well knew what to expect, and taking my time eased my way up into the first tree, a 40 inch Laurel oak hovering over a house. Suffice to say the tree came down that day, nobody got hurt and nothing got broken. And having worked the crew that day I knew very well what to expect the following day.

75 inch Laurel Oak was no laughing matter, and the untrained lawn maintenance crew running the chainsaws and skid steer down below would have been a laughing matter if I wasn't so damn depressed about the entirety of the situation. And who was it that should zero turn right in the dead center of my climbing line? Of course that was the owner of the company himself being the experienced businessman in the field for 15, no wait 17, oh that's right 20 years.

The most pivotal point for me at this juncture was when I finally came around to blowing the top out of this monster, which knowing better I was sure to brace for impact as my rope man decided 5 wraps should suffice. But the worst part was finally when he lowered it to the ground.

The entire top came flying to the ground after removing three of the wraps and landed on the porta wrap, making a mess of the whole situation. And as per usual why make a cut a safe distance from the bull rope holding a two and a half thousand pound chunk of tree over your head when you can get real close and let the kickback from the chainsaw take care of the whole problem for you?

At this point I have endeavored to build my own crew of my own men trained in the art of tree care my way. but of course not before acquiring a chipper and very literally gentleman building my own chip truck, rather unnamed-businessman-of-20-years-in-the-field's chip truck, which with the welder that I bought was not the most complicated undertaking of the last year of my life, but I did feel kind of bad converting the F 350 King Cab dualy with independent climate control, heated leather seats, and carpeted flooring.

so one groundman later, an old friend of mine who I enlisted for help from my younger days in Florida and I set off with my brand new tree crew. Of course now having double the crew, my new responsibility was to double the revenue at half cost tree work for quality service. The last year has turned out to be a lot of touch and go with brand new greenhorns trying to learn the trade my way while simultaneously being unable to climb and still making the numbers at half cost. Now I'm no rookie in the field, but damn.

As it turns out 13 to 14 hour days as a single climber running a tree company will cause physical fatigue. But far be it for me to let something as silly as being run down and overworked overcome my determination to make something work under the promise of being a part of building my very own tree company.

So after confronting the boss many times in the field and at the shop about the ridiculous hours put on my body I finally bring in what would turn out to be the best climber I've ever trained, the 40 inch oak tree he removed in a 1/8 acre sized drop zone over a house on two sides and a fence on the other two being a testament to the level of care he puts in his work, to the heart that fuels his desires to succeed, and the trust and faith that man put in me, his foreman.

From that point on he and I shuffled through a couple of different climbers coming in who already had experience which had become a detrimental necessity as my arms were very literally tearing off of the bones holding them in place and my lower back slipping from trying to wrangle the cattle on the ground while simultaneously keeping his drop zone clear and running his ropes.

The climbers coming in ranged from 2 years of experience to 6 years of experience and did not last long at all under the absurd payload delivered to us every day - and what kind of insane tree man would stick around for that abuse?

So now I sit on my back porch with prospects of working for an already established tree company on account of me being let go because I refuse to have any more conversations or hang around on the job for any more than 8 hours at that point.

From the very beginning I tried to get this man to alter his bids so that we were not pounded with an absurd amount of work in a day. At this point my doctor doesn't want me back in the field until the swelling in my back has gone away and my arms fully attached to my body.

Have no doubt gentleman, that I was lied to, mislead, and manipulated into working what I had understood to be par for the course in the Florida tree market until I set out to do my own research in the field, run a few bids myself, and finally quit having the conversations with the son of a bitch who would otherwise have used his words to coax me into getting the jobs done no matter what.

I should have never partnered up with someone that does not know the tree industry, who simply is not a tree guy, and the breath of fresh air I got from talking to a man who would like to hire me who has run a tree business for almost 30 years in the area is one of the most relieving oxygenated breaths I have ever taken in my life.

Beware the underbid.
 
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Great story if I had the time and inclination to read novels.

If you consider this to be real and want any chance at a different tomorrow stop pointing fingers or emotion at others and take credit for the nearly unbelievably, complexly, unworkable situation you managed to create.

If you wanted to work with a great and reputable company there is someone who is looking to add to their crew in Florida on a frequent basis.

If this comes across harsh please excuse me. I'm sitting here amazed that your circumstance could be perceived by you to somehow be someone else's fault.
 
Aside from the fact that I am incredibly accountable, I never imagined that I would particularly fall into the circumstances that I had. Not typically a very gullible person, and the reasons that drove me to persist with the incredibly messy situation I found myself in we're not just personal, and the reason why I bothered to post this was not for the gratification of receiving attention during an unfortunate healing process, however instead to make people aware of just how easy it is to fall into a bad situation.

Aside from that, inclinations aside, simply don't read it. On top of that give me some shred of credit for working with the circumstances that I had, trying to reason with the bastard on multiple occasions, and sticking through it regardless of my injuries in most part so that the other guys on my crew, who are not seasoned tree guys but instead complete greenhorns would have work each and every day.

I simply just really wanted to be a part of building something, and loyalty that I put into this from the very start was without a doubt used to take advantage of me.

That being said, I am NOT new, and I know how to run bids and create work, and the unmanageable situation was not my doing, and I made every attempt to work with the tools I had available and educate the prick.
 
I had a similar situation happen to me last year. Moved half way across the county to work for a "reputable" tree company that had been in business 12 years. First day I showed I knew what I was getting into. Equipment was run down or non-existent, boss ran his business out of his parents basement, and the "shop" was a 6x8 shed.

Jobs were consistently underbid, days were long, and my groundsman was completely untrained. Jobs were so underbid that the boss couldn't keep up with payroll. He fell nearly a month behind in paying me, so I put the pressure on myself to speed things up and take shortcuts trying to bring more money in so I could get paid. Property got damaged, tensions rose, and the stress from work was starting to effect my relationship. And it was all my fault. I knew what was happening and I didn't get out soon enough. It got to the point where one day I just didn't show up and never went back. My advice is run far, run fast, because it doesn't get better until you leave.
 
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Jobs were consistently underbid, days were long, and my groundsman was completely untrained. Jobs were so underbid that the boss couldn't keep up with payroll. He fell nearly a month behind in paying me, so I put the pressure on myself to speed things up and take shortcuts trying to bring more money in so I could get paid. Property got damaged, tensions rose, and the stress from work was starting to effect my relationship. And it was all my fault. I knew what was happening and I didn't get out soon enough. It got to the point where one day I just didn't show up and never went back. My advice is run far, run fast, because it doesn't get better until you leave.

Appreciate the positive feedback[emoji6]
 
It is easy, in hindsight and with a few decades of experience on you, to wonder how anyone could stick with a clusterfuck like that. But, I did it myself... numerous times... over the years. I eventually learned to spot a bad idea from a mile away, and to politely (and sometimes not so politely) avoid them. Occasionally, I could turn the mess around into something doable by being very insistent that if I'm going to get involved, we'll do it sensibly or not at all. When you like people, and enjoy helping them out with a problem, it can be easy to get sucked into something that was probably best left alone. I believe the trick is to recognize when it is happening, and force yourself to pass on the big messes that you realistically can't fix, or that will only drag you into misery. I don't think that it reflects badly on anyone who gets caught up in the cycle. If they don't learn anything from it, well... that might be another matter.

When you get up there in years, it's easy to forget all the mistakes you make along the way, and start thinking the rest of the world is just plain stupid. Personally, I find that to be a lot more offensive than talking with someone who is still working their way through life's hard knocks, learning by experience. Hang in there, it's much easier to succeed at something when you have firsthand experience with how it should not be done.
 
Many of my best employees have come from these shitty situations. Something to be said for humble beginnings and finding your place in the industry. I have this quote on the wall above my desk:
It is neither wealth nor splendor; but tranquility and occupation which give you happiness.
Thomas Jefferson
In this biz where human capitol is our biggest asset and we are held down by the hacks and underbiders, it pays to be happy with the view from your "desk".

I also have this quote:
People spend too much time finding other people to blame, too much energy finding excuses for not being what they are capable of being, and not enough energy putting themselves on the line, growing out of the past, and getting on with their lives.
J. Michael Straczynski
IMO it reflects Merle's statement.
 
no worries here man, I'll heal and get right back at it. The blame for my situation is mine, but I am giving the man credit for lying, and I'll hold him accountable for that.
 
no worries here man, I'll heal and get right back at it. The blame for my situation is mine, but I am giving the man credit for lying, and I'll hold him accountable for that.
Hate to say this, the ratio of hacks to quality guys in our industry is at least 2:1, from what I've been told it gets worse down south. Think it's the storm chasers? Don't get me wrong there's plenty of hacking around here too.
 
Yeah, but now I'm seemed with experience... I'll never for someone again until I see their operation, and yeah... Bunch of hacks down here... Kentucky was awesome, ratio reversal
 
Reed i work at a place like what you've said, where a bunch of us came from bad situations. i came from a landscape company, 'nuf said there.
JK, just leave man. did you time, gave it an honest shot, time to come to terms with how you feel and find a new employer. if your as qualified as you say, which I'm not saying cause i doubt it at all, then you should be able to find a job. just reach out to the reputable companies in your area, whether they are hiring or not.

i liked reading thru that post man, had me right there. feel like i lived it now
 
A few days later we met at his shop where and I waited patiently for him to arrive. 45 minutes later he was there with the keys and upon opening the bay door I laid my eyes on what was to be the beginning of a tree company, a single running lawnmower on a truck and trailer sitting next to a broken down lawn mower and a bench with a few pulled apart chainsaws.

I'm certain that if someone offered heroin to me, I'd tell them to pack sand. Still, it's your life. I probably have some experiences most people would have rejected off-hand.
 
I spent three years with a company trying to build something, arrogantly thinking I could make a difference, suffering through physical pain and injuries. It took three years for me to realize that I could not make the change because the owner (for all his promises and assurances) was incapable of change. I learned a lot, and I earned pretty good money in the end. The lessons were the hard won. My sense of loyalty was misplaced and after gaining some perspective and distance, I felt used. I vowed to keep my eyes open and not let that happen again, but I know it is my nature to give people the benefit of the doubt. I do not wish to become so jaded that it blinds me to the opportunity provided by good people. No one is perfect, no employer is perfect. For me it's just a matter of keeping my priorities straight and not being afraid to ask for what I need. I don't really care how it might be received in the short term, if I know it's right for me. Certainly I've become more selfish, but I'm not afraid to say no. I know what's right for me, finding a place within my current company is a work in progress. I hope the rewards will justify the work and that my loyalty will be earned (not bestowed) and that I will make a difference in the company and in the lives of the younger climbers in whom I see the promise of the future.

Not sure my point exactly, other than my own situation improved when I started taking better care of myself and taking a fearless inventory of my own requirements. This has led me to a much more desirable work situation. Trust your gut. Trust your heart. Don't think too much.
 
Nice... As it turns out, I'm on a job site that a potential employer's crew is about to show up on. Talked to this guy and told him I want to see the operation before I make a commitment. Seems to be a decent middle ground, and his willingness to entertain my notion is certainly a plus, but I won't ever just hop into another company without first seeing what I'm getting into
 
Nice... As it turns out, I'm on a job site that a potential employer's crew is about to show up on. Talked to this guy and told him I want to see the operation before I make a commitment. Seems to be a decent middle ground, and his willingness to entertain my notion is certainly a plus, but I won't ever just hop into another company without first seeing what I'm getting into

Like I said don't be afraid to ask for what you want. The worst that comes from that is a "no." But at least then you know where you stand.
 

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