ANSI?

Kevin,

Can you post any links that show examples of what you refer to here:

but if
the govenment can supply easy access (nothing is free) to regulations for loggers and
others then I don`t see any valid reason for not doing the same for arborists.

What governmental agency provides access to ANSI standards to their respective industry? Not trying to be smarmy, I'd like to read the regulations. And, if ANSI standards are posted in one industry, that might set a precidence for having the Z and A300 posted too. You see, I'm a Capricorn and a cynic. I really should be from Missouri, the Show-Me state
smile.gif


Tom
 
I agree that it doesn't seem equitable to charge for some standards while others are free. I don't know how or why it is like that. It doesn't bother me enough to try and find out. (I just read Tom's post and realized that I haven't seen ANSI standards anywhere else either. I thought I had, but after checking, it was OSHA.) I'm just happy that I have an industry recognized document that I can use as support to correct an unsafe act, and to provide some guide lines as I learn and grow. If I had to learn for myself what is safe or unsafe, I would never have survived the process.

As for NAA and ISA only being in it for the money...I don't agree. But, that sounds like a new topic to be discussed elsewhere.

Louie Hampton

[ October 23, 2002: Message edited by: Louie Hampton ]
 
Thanks for the post, Kevin. I think the difference here is ANSI and OSHA. OSHA is a Govt. funded organization. They make regulations and can enforce. They get paid to do that.

ANSI is a group of "experts" in associated areas of an industry. They don't get Govt. funding (that I am aware of) and each member pays their own way (or the company that they represent).

I agree with Brian that rules should be easily attainable, but $15 seems very reasonable to me. The cost won't even cover the lunches during one revision for the committee! We are a small company and my father pays his pwn way every time he goes to DC. It adds up. If he will cover his own pay for the missed days, travel, food and hotel, I'll pay $15 to see what he felt so strongly about.

If anyone can't afford to get a copy, I'll send you mine.
wink.gif
 
Mark,
Wouldn`t it be nice to have a site for arborists similar to the one OSHA has for loggers?
Maybe you can tell me what happens when an arborist falls out of a tree and negligence is involved.
Who shows up to lay the charges, we have a ministry of labor here.
What rule would they quote and where would they get that specific rule from?
Would they just use a blanket negligence charge to cover everything?
Say the climber wasn`t using a wire core flipline and cut through the rope that caused him to fall.
 
Here is some information about the ANSI/OSHA relationship.
Paul Cyr of OSHA reported that the Agency is in the process of reviewing sections of 1910.269 and are considering the use of ANSI Z133.1 as the standard for health and safety recommendations for the tree care industry. This exercise will provide and opportunity to establish policy for area office complieance officers to utilize the Z133.1 standards when inspecting arboriculutre operations.

Tom
 
OSHA does list accidents and fatality data on their website for our profession, SIC code 0783. It is a lot of information (1984-2002), but is not complete. OSHA does not get all of the accidents.

I do have the fatalitles summarized and put on a spreadsheet. I'd be more than happy to email them to anyone who wants them. This is a free service sponsored in part by the NAA, as I did some of this work on NAA time and much of it on my time.

Please send me an email and I'll send it to you.

Thanks,

TMW
 
If the government is laying charges they should be providing the regulations.
It makes sense to cover your own butt and do what`s right for your own safety but if the govenment can supply easy access (nothing is free) to regulations for loggers and others then I don`t see any valid reason for not doing the same for arborists.
 
Here is some information about the ANSI/OSHA relationship.
Paul Cyr of OSHA reported that the Agency is in the process of reviewing sections of 1910.269 and are considering the use of ANSI Z133.1 as the standard for health and safety recommendations for the tree care industry. This exercise will provide and opportunity to establish policy for area office complieance officers to utilize the Z133.1 standards when inspecting arboriculutre operations.


Great
mad.gif
Does this mean that I can look forward to some OSHA inspector comming around and slapin' a fine on me for using a three-point climbing technique in a pine removal?
 
Irradicable,

If you're climbing using the three point contact method and not being tied in, you're already in violation of ANSI. Why would you purposely expose yourself to the risk of falling? With the climbing techniques available these days, there is no excuse or reason to free climb. Doesn't your family depend on you coming home, walking, every day? What good are you, to them, if you're injured or dead?

Please respond, I'm not asking rhetorical questions.

Tom
 
Tom,

I believe ANSI states, that, if necessary, it is acceptable to free climb through a thick canopied conifer, as long as three point contact is maintained.

I used to do it most of the time, now very seldom...

I've some new fall color pics up My photos
 
Joe,

The current edition is 2000.

The Z committee met in Baltimore a couple of weeks ago for the last round of changes for the '05 edition. In a few weeks the public comment period will start.

As soon as I hear about the revisions being posted for comment I'll put a note up.

Stay tuned!
 
The draft of the next revision is scheduled for public comment from July 1-September 1, 2005.

The anticipated publication date is January 2006.

TMW
 
Patience Grasshopper...

As soon as the link is up for public comment it will be posted here in a brand new thread. If I remember correctly you would go to the site and there are forms to use. All of the comments are archived. If there is a lot of comments on a section the committee will consider re-writing.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Patience Grasshopper...
If there is a lot of comments on a section the committee will consider re-writing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is it the quantity of comments that is important? Is it wise to let the vocal minority make decisions for everyone? I guess that is how our country is run!

Actually, I think it's cool that they open this up for basically everyone to scrutinize. Then it's not like ANSI is coming from people "up there" that don't know what it's like to actually do tree work. In a sense, if you don't like it, it's your own fault.

love
nick
 
Nick,

The voting members of the Z committe are, for the most part, still connected closely to production operations. Even though most of the members aren't in the field full time they are very concerned with making the workplace as safe as possible and still have the rules functional.

there are some proposed changes that should generate some discussion.
 
Oh, I think I worded my post incorrectly. I was tyring to convey that I understand that some people see these "rules" (though they are technically not rules) just come from some distant government body that is disconnected from the arboring community. I know the ANSI committee is keepin' it real.

But the fact that they're putting it up here for us...that's taking it to the next level!

love
nick
 
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