another backleaner

I will take it a step farther, with the use of a bobcat or truck or anything other then human and pulley, you just dont have that feel for what the load and system are doing at any given moment. I have always seen this as a loaded gun aimed at a head ready to go off. Any loaded line even when locked off has stored energy that can hurt or poss kill. By placing a bobcat on a line for a pull you will not know something is wrong (like your load is stuck or not able to move for any given reason) until the line breaks or in a case like this the knotch jumps off the stump way early.

I know most rope books and classes say its ok to use a power device to pull a line as long as there is no life on the other end. Maybe we should look outside the box on this and see that the person cutting and the person in the bobcat could and should count as being on the line.

If anything at least place some kind of weight on the pull line between the bobcat and the redirect.
 
[ QUOTE ]
I will take it a step farther, with the use of a bobcat or truck or anything other then human and pulley, you just dont have that feel for what the load and system are doing at any given moment. I have always seen this as a loaded gun aimed at a head ready to go off. Any loaded line even when locked off has stored energy that can hurt or poss kill. By placing a bobcat on a line for a pull you will not know something is wrong (like your load is stuck or not able to move for any given reason) until the line breaks or in a case like this the knotch jumps off the stump way early.

I know most rope books and classes say its ok to use a power device to pull a line as long as there is no life on the other end. Maybe we should look outside the box on this and see that the person cutting and the person in the bobcat could and should count as being on the line.

If anything at least place some kind of weight on the pull line between the bobcat and the redirect.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was wondering if anyone was gonna address this; Cycles-to-failure issue.
Having a motorized piece of equipment pulling on a secured rope is asking for trouble. If the rope 'parts', there is definitely enough force to do some serious damage.
 
The bobcat-on-the-rope thing has sketched me out from the get go.

I NEVER put a truck or motorized equipment on a line, and the most MA I use is from my GRCS.

-Tom
 
Norm, nobody is addressing this stuff because Daniel flips out if you contradict or critique anything he does. The only time he's happy is when somebody reinforces what he thinks is right.

Unless you're looking for a fight, why bother?
 
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Norm, nobody is addressing this stuff because Daniel flips out if you contradict or critique anything he does. The only time he's happy is when somebody reinforces what he thinks is right.

Unless you're looking for a fight, why bother?

[/ QUOTE ]

That's not a quality unique to Daniel. This whole industry is rife with that kind of thing.

All I can say about that video is... uh, interesting. I would not have dealt with that scenario as depicted.
 
True, nobody likes to be critiqued harshly and some of the critiques here were pointlessly harsh but Daniel rejects practically ALL advice no matter how it's delivered.

I'll wager a lot of people here who recognize that think it's a shame because he's fundamentally a sincere, likable guy... which matters MORE than what a badass tree guy he is.

Every one of has screwed up, some worse than others and I go in the worse column. I'm not ashamed of it, I know stuff now I never would've known otherwise... and I've picked up lots of good advice on arborist forums to mitigate those issues in the future. I expect it will always be like that. I never learned all I wanted to know about leadership, photography, data communications, graphic design, whitewater rivers, flying, Microsoft Excel, women, VW engines, salamanders...

If I think I'm right I'll argue for the fun of it until I can't stay awake. But if you show me I'm wrong? I have no problem admitting I'm wrong... I've made a LOT of money by admitting I was wrong or didn't know about something.

I guess I think the harsh words aren't so bad if it's done with respect and not anger... and they're just plain great when the wit is sharp.
I don't think they have a place in genuine, well meaning critique though because the message gets lost, all that gets through is the hard edge.
 
[ QUOTE ]
True, nobody likes to be critiqued harshly and some of the critiques here were pointlessly harsh but Daniel rejects practically ALL advice no matter how it's delivered.

I'll wager a lot of people here who recognize that think it's a shame because he's fundamentally a sincere, likable guy... which matters MORE than what a badass tree guy he is.

Every one of has screwed up, some worse than others and I go in the worse column. I'm not ashamed of it, I know stuff now I never would've known otherwise... and I've picked up lots of good advice on arborist forums to mitigate those issues in the future. I expect it will always be like that. I never learned all I wanted to know about leadership, photography, data communications, graphic design, whitewater rivers, flying, Microsoft Excel, women, VW engines, salamanders...

If I think I'm right I'll argue for the fun of it until I can't stay awake. But if you show me I'm wrong? I have no problem admitting I'm wrong... I've made a LOT of money by admitting I was wrong or didn't know about something.

I guess I think the harsh words aren't so bad if it's done with respect and not anger... and they're just plain great when the wit is sharp.
I don't think they have a place in genuine, well meaning critique though because the message gets lost, all that gets through is the hard edge.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're so wrong. This entire post couldn't be more wrong. Wrong wrong wrong!
parry.gif
 
ok I'll chime in here. "it was all part of the plan" why not make the face in the intended direction of the lay? once again it went sideways. I think he'd be better off using that black bar to censor himself.
 
[ QUOTE ]
This video is scary. Daniel, you do know that cranes can sometimes aid in removing dangerous trees, right?

Also, what was your plan if the tree rolled and fell back over the lines? Oh I forgot, there was NO WAY that could have happened with your Chris Angel notch.

Your videos are entertaining as hell. We watch them at work to remind us just how dangerous and stupid treework can be.


SZ

[/ QUOTE ]Good video to remind ourself $ sign aint worth our life sometimes.
 
I may disagree with his approach to certain jobs but if it wasn't for people like Daniel no new techniques would ever have developed in treework.

The fact is there always has to be 'the first person' to try an idea, so what if its based on guesswork, we get into trees everyday and we dont know for sure if they arent gonna fail underneath us when we rig a branch down, how is that any different from what Dan is doing?

Look at what happened to Pete Donzelli.

Treework is not an exact science, you can never rule out the risk of death or serious injury. From what I can see Dan is assessing risk on the job, the same as we all do, thinking on his feet just like the rest of us, he might chose a different technique but that doesn't make it inherently wrong.

We're all the same in this job, dealing with huge organic structures we know very little about. Dont kid yourselves on that you have an insight into the workings of a tree, you dont, everything we do is guesswork, we minimise the risk using experience and some book knowledge then we just go for it otherwise we'd never get anything done.






.
 
The difference is that he puts it on video for all of us to see, giving us the chance to critique his work, which he purports to be groundbreaking, at least somewhat.

Cranking a locust backwards over electrical wires using a conventional notch, backcut and a Bobcat is not a 'new technique,' it's a dangerous proposition. Especially if access with a 60' Altec is gratuitous.

I agree with you in principle, Grover, but the video doesn't lie. That was an unneccesarily dangerous move.

-Tom
 
[ QUOTE ]
Look at what happened to Pete Donzelli.



[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly the point. This is not the place to try things out unless people are in a safe place to try them.

Is it worth a life to show a new technique? Or research Ideas?
 
[ QUOTE ]


Your videos are entertaining as hell. We watch them at work to remind us just how dangerous and stupid treework can be.


SZ

[/ QUOTE ]

that's freakin awesome writing ez! Good job man, you never let me down.
 
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