alternatives to GRCS

Wouter, 220lbs = 99.8 kg.
The photo in question shows a 3:1 M.A, less some friction around the bollard. If a 220lb guy (I work with plenty bigger) hangs his full weight on the rope what do you think the output will be?

I wasn’t looking for thanks from anyone, as an offer is meaningless until carried out.

You claim Steven’s is better than Gregs?

It facilitates 2 lines at once, ok, what else?
Holding strength/grip against the tree,
Over-all toughness,
Heat dissipation on the bollard,
Number of wraps,
User friendly,
Mounting options,
Cost?

SouthSoundTree: I designed the pulley in such away because it’s faster than a swing cheek and link. Using a standard grab for an MA is frowned upon by most so it wasn’t included in the instruction.
The Stein Dual has both 2:1 and 5:1 MA’s on the lever. All the Stein LDs facilitate fiddle-blocks.

My emphasis was on affordable toughness, high-impact-loading and low heat build-up.....with some simplistic lifting & pre-loading options. I try to encourage people to bring trees down instead of up.
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Taking nothing from Greg’s GRCS - beautiful and proven, but a different animal. For lifting/versitility, out on its own!
 

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If I were you I would get in contact with Steven and find out for yourself.

I've miscalculated the LBS to kilo's....my mistake.

The GRCS is a great tool, but in my personal opinion the winchbolder is better ;-)

But testing results are not yet finished.

wouter
 
Regarding price, I met Steve at the ETCC, and he said it would be cheaper than the grcs. But that was a couple of months ago. As for the design, I think it looks really cool.
 
Reg, regarding the 2:1 and 5:1, is that for the bollard farther from the pivot, and the bollard closer to the pivot, with a fixed lever length, or is it otherwise? If you have any links to pictures of the MA function, up close, it would be good to see. I haven't seen anything up close, only the demo of pretensioning, which left me wondering about the limb lifting capability. Any ideas on a feet of lift/ minute rate on the Stein device, and in comparison to the GRCS?




I thought that many frowned upon the standard grab due to concentrated pressure/ possible damage to the rope.

It would be sweet if someone could make a slip-on grip that is non-damaging to rope, something sorta like a Chicago Grip.
 
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Reg, regarding the 2:1 and 5:1, is that for the bollard farther from the pivot, and the bollard closer to the pivot, with a fixed lever length, or is it otherwise? If you have any links to pictures of the MA function, up close, it would be good to see. I haven't seen anything up close, only the demo of pretensioning, which left me wondering about the limb lifting capability. Any ideas on a feet of lift/ minute rate on the Stein device, and in comparison to the GRCS?




I thought that many frowned upon the standard grab due to concentrated pressure/ possible damage to the rope.

It would be sweet if someone could make a slip-on grip that is non-damaging to rope, something sorta like a Chicago Grip.

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At 7 minutes in the second vid: http://www.treebuzz.com/forum/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=210400&an=0&page=3#210400

Some make it look easy while other's the opposite, like anything. I'm probably somewhere in the middle. We've lifted some respectable size limbs, where they're still hinged in good time. Obviously keeping the limb attatched + a favourable line-angle/rigging point relative the position the rope is tied along the limb makes all the difference.
 
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Regarding price, I met Steve at the ETCC, and he said it would be cheaper than the grcs. But that was a couple of months ago. As for the design, I think it looks really cool.

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This is right but it will be a lot cheaper than the GRCS is in the Netherlands....The GRCS will cost here about 3200 euro's...and that's a lot more than the +/-2400 that we will have to pay for the ducth designed and manufactured winchbolder from Steven.

In de states the GRCS is a lot cheaper and the winchbolder will be more expensive because off international taxes and dealer profits etc.

greetz

wouter
 
To clear things up first, Its not better than the grcs,its different!

price difference are only relative in holland for us.

if there are any questions shoot!

Greets,
Steven Ibelings
 
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To clear things up first, Its not better than the grcs,its different!

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the better part has yet to be proven in the daily work ;-)

but it certainly is different then all the rest.

see ya

wouter
 
[ QUOTE ]

To clear things up first, Its not better than the grcs,its different!

price difference are only relative in holland for us.

if there are any questions shoot!

Greets,
Steven Ibelings

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Why didnt you position the bollard higher on the backplate like the GRCS and Hobbs? Doing this helps to force the bollard against the tree when loaded, making it more secure.

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[ QUOTE ]

To clear things up first, Its not better than the grcs,its different!

price difference are only relative in holland for us.

if there are any questions shoot!

Greets,
Steven Ibelings

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Glad to see you jumped on the forum. Great looking piece of equipment. Very stylish. Hope everything works out for you. Keep the innovation coming. Its beyond me how you guys not only come up with these ideas but have the ability to fabricate them. Truly amazing.

Welcome to the site. Hope you continue to post.
 
at first thanks for the positive reactions.

we didnt place it higher because we anglad the backplate, this keeps it from tipping over...we didnt got it happening yet.

cheers,

steven
 
Thanks for that Reg. Always a good show from you. That video really highlights the abilities for lifting and lowering. Your other videos showcase the double bull line negative-blocking catches really well.

Was that an Atlas Blue Cedar, Cedrus atlantica 'gluaca'?
I just removed an ABC that had two large included bark trunks fail. I could have used a good lifting/ lowering device for sure. Many long leads over the house, close to the roof.

I like aspect of the RC3002 that allows a lift on the tip-tie, and a second bollard for a butt-tie. This can allow a good horizontal limb swing over an obstacle with reassurance that the butt will be controlled in the even of the hinge breaking, and the ability lower the whole limb from one device once it has hinged past the obstacle.



The 3002 Dual looks to be about 60% of the cost of a GRCS.



If it would jive with the TB or ArbTalk admin, I think that it would be cool to have a Stein thread with links to the videos that show the capabilities of the different devices all in one easy to access place, accessible from anywhere there is internet access.
Definitely some good innovations and demo videos. I don't know the expense involved in burning DVDs of the line-up, but maybe Stein will look into this/ is looking into this. GRCS demo dvds are available free through Bailey's. A thread with links to the videos could serve the same purpose, but be basically free.

That other video of the log lift looked heavy. What do you estimate/ guessimate that it weighted, for evidence of its lifting capacity with one person on the lever?


Once again, good show.
 
The cedar was actually a deodar.

The log in the other video, I could have gone a little heavier on the 2:1 but that would have been my lot. However, a big guy probably woulda done the same but one handed. Thanks
 
Nice video Reg..

smooth work as usual... clear example of the type of control that can be had combining tip tying with a lifting device..

a couple questions, which are just that, questions not criticms.. I don't make assumptions based on the limited info in that video..

was it not practical to work with gravity on at least a couple of those pieces?

Looked like there was room on at least two of those cuts, that could have been made a bit faster by balance point tying and then having the grond crew let them run away from you.. if you needed to control on the ground for getting them into the LZ, a tag line on the but seems like it would have been faster than wratcheting them up..

DO you ever worry about a small limb breaking off (while all that pressure is on the rope) and falling on the groundie, who is running the device?

He seems like he's in a fairly vulnerable position with all the force neede to stand and break those bits off.. even a small branch could do some damage if it speared him in the shoulder or back...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h7vOcKjz0sU

1 minute vid

Here's an example of working a similar situation.. tight LZ on the drive between the house and the tree.. There was a redirect block at the base of the tree and skid steer with porty in drive.. the first piece had already been stood up a bit with the loader before the vid starts.. Having the skid steer down the drive, well out of the LZ seems a safer scenario than running the GRCS at the base of the tree, putting at least one groundie directly in the LZ, while all that force is going on above him.. It is certainly quick and easy as well, as long as their is good communication with the ground crew... Now if I could only pull that off with that sexy Brit accent of yours.
 
Dan, thanks for the imput. I've never been that comfortable with guys winching a severed limb directly underneath but there was little to go wrong on this particular conifer.

But listen, when I said this video was for southsoundtree I meant it....just wanted to show him how the lever worked.

Normally I'd have ripped that tree apart in half the time. There was plenty of room to free-fall most of it, and impacting the ground didn't matter. But we had lots of time and SStree's query was on my mind from the night before.

The guys didn't mind and it was good practice for them when the situation demands it in the furure.
 
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...we didnt place it higher because we anglad the backplate, this keeps it from tipping over...

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I can see that the back plate is higher and has a triangular hole in it. Was this for a easier one man set up?

Sort of like Reg's idea with is unit...

I can visualize putting a large whoopie with a biner on the tree first, then hook the new rigging device onto that. Then it would make it much easier for one man to use the winch to strap it snug to the tree.

I think that's right. Am I right?

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I can see that the back plate is higher and has a triangular hole in it. Was this for a easier one man set up?


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Why would you need to have a 'one man set-up' lowering device? isn't there usually more than one person involved in the use of a lowering device anyway? I doubt thats what the triangular hole is for, maybe its for holding a small Toblerone? I suspect that by incorporating a Toblerone into the lowering device you negate the need for lunch as the person running the ropes would keep hunger at bay by eating a chunk of triangular chocolate after each branch was lowered.

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