A tight squeeeeeze 'n' gargoyles

Re: A tight squeeeeeze \'n\' gargoyles

Mark C. wrote:

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I have one question, whenever I discuss removal of a tree by rigging it down with ropes and such I call it "removing a tree or roping it down or simply rigging". When I speak to my friends in Europe, they always say "we felled a tree" or a "tree felling job". This to me is a job where you simply cut it from the ground or "fell" it. No climbing involved. Why is it different in North America regarding this? Any idea?


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Mark B. replied:

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Mark,

I hear what you're saying. It's like with all these international things, we all share a common lannguage, apparently, but so often we mean different things. I think I sometimes get mixed up between german and english terms. But point taken, I'll try to be more precise in future.

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Question for Mark B.:

what term do you Europeans use when you just have to 'notch and drop' a tree? Is that also called 'felling'?
 
Re: A tight squeeeeeze \'n\' gargoyles

Another comment about those terms.

ANSI Z133.1 ( the ANSI standard for arboriculture) uses 'removal' regardless of whether the tree is being taken down in pieces or being dropped in one piece. 'Felling' is used in the ANSI standard for logging and the Z tries to keep our industry distinct and separate from logging by avoiding the use of 'felling'.

If you have written documents (employee training manuals, handbooks, evaluations etc.), or have a visit from OSHA, it would probably be best to follow the Z and avoid using the term 'felling'. If you do use the term 'felling' it opens up the possibility that you could be cited for violations of the ANSI standard for logging.

The terms 'notch', 'hinge', and 'backcut' do appear in the Z, as well as 'dropping'.
 
Re: A tight squeeeeeze \'n\' gargoyles

[ QUOTE ]
Mark,

I hear what you're saying. It's like with all these international things, we all share a common lannguage, apparently, but so often we mean different things. I think I sometimes get mixed up between german and english terms. But point taken, I'll try to be more precise in future.

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Please Mark, think nothing of it. Say it how you feel fit. I am just curious as to why it is always spoken differently? I know so many in Europe who say "Felling a tree..." that's all. No idea why, huh?
 
Re: A tight squeeeeeze \'n\' gargoyles

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This baby cost them € 120'000. Wow. You'd want to have it running a lot with that kind of price tag.

Still, if someone offered me one for free, I might say "yes", so maybe I'm just jealous.

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I love the rolloff trk with loader. You don't have to clean up after yourself?
Nice job, its good feeling when those jobs are done and you still have your margin left. A good groundie just as important as the climber on those jobs. I don't like to shock load the harkin either. Good Documenting.
 
Re: A tight squeeeeeze \'n\' gargoyles

The problem in Europe is that it is not just English spoken.
A few years ago we started a thread where we could fill out a excel form to get all the linguistic problems aside.

Dutch:
One cut at the bottom of the tree is Vellen.
Taking the tree down in pieces is Uitkleden, Afbreken, Aftoppen or Afblokken.
As you can see, in a small country as Holland we can't get our noses in one direction if we speak about 'taking a tree down in pieces'. /forum/images/graemlins/smirk.gif
 
Re: A tight squeeeeeze \'n\' gargoyles

Understood. It's the same here. I guess that it's just a hard thing to translate into English. I never was confused with Mark's post, but I get emails from friends in Italy that say "we have a felling job " and then they say "will will use a crane..."? I understand at the end, but the beginning throws me for a loop. /forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
Re: A tight squeeeeeze \'n\' gargoyles

Mark,

I remeber sitting in on one meeting - I think it was at the Pittburgh conference - when rigging terms and definitions were being discussed. These are major projects, with substantial budgets behind them. There has to be because of the time and effort involved.

In Europe the EAC (Euro Arborist Council) have tried to do something similar with the European Tree Worker and Technician. One of the targets was to create a standardised terminology in the manual. Did it work? Pretty debatable, in my humble opinion. As Wolter said, many languages make for many points where misunderstandings can occur. Even amongst english speaking folk. In Europe we always laugh when Microsoft talks about "English" vs. "UK English". But hey, it does make a difference whether you're from the states or the UK or another part of the english speaking world.

Personally, when I talk about felling a tree, I mean the result. The tree is felled. Then you can specify the means employed, rigging, dropping, from the base or whatever. I've found that sometimes terms employed can even differ from company to company.

All this is no excuse. Al Shigo say we have to be precise when talking about things... the man has a point. All this raises an interesting issue, and yes, indeed, I shall try to be more precise in the future when useing theses terms.
 
Re: A tight squeeeeeze \'n\' gargoyles

Mark B. wrote:

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Personally, when I talk about felling a tree, I mean the result. The tree is felled. Then you can specify the means employed, rigging, dropping, from the base or whatever.

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But when you say "The tree is felled" I, and I think most people here, would assume that tree has been dropped in one piece from the ground. For the general meaning that you understand by "felled", we would say 'the tree has been cut down' or 'the tree has been taken down' (note too that the verb is passive, and we would probably say 'the tree has been felled').

Mangoes wrote:

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Some use 'dismantle'

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I like the term 'dismantle' because it is more descriptive of what we actually do.

Can be confusing, but also interesting.
 
Re: A tight squeeeeeze \'n\' gargoyles

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I like the term 'dismantle' because it is more descriptive of what we actually do.

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I use the term 'roped down' or 'will need roping down' as a description to another treeman on a work order when rigging is involved.

Or 'needs climbing but no roping' which means climbed and pieces just dropped.

Or 'tree can be felled' if the tree can be dropped in one cut.

I think I just picked these terms up from other people over time.
 
Re: A tight squeeeeeze \'n\' gargoyles

Estimates where clients want a breakdown of pricing for options go like this for me....

Regarding 1 large Red Oak at the Northeast corner of the rear yard, adjacent to the pool shed:
1)Dismantle and Fell. Cut the stump just above grade. $bling
2)Clean up and dispose of debris 6 inches diameter and smaller. $bling bling
3)Clean up and dispose of debris 6 inches diameter and larger. $bling bling bling
4)Grind the stump from the above removal to 10-12 inches below grade, leave debris from work performed neatly mounded. $bling
 
Re: A tight squeeeeeze \'n\' gargoyles

Thanks for the great shots Mark. I noticed someone in SIP pants. I just got a pair about two months ago. I love them. So much better than chaps. Great protection, comfortable and styling. I’ve been wearing mine everyday since I got them.
 
Re: A tight squeeeeeze \'n\' gargoyles

I've always used the words Pieced Out, no rigging required, and Roped Out. But you could always fell big pieces with pull ropes tooo. If yu'z scared.....
 
Re: A tight squeeeeeze \'n\' gargoyles

I would agree to that Mahk. However, let's not beat up on Mr. Bridge about it. It's not just his area that uses those terms. It's pretty widespread. Sorry Mark. /forum/images/graemlins/blush.gif
 
Re: A tight squeeeeeze \'n\' gargoyles

That's right guys, let it all out on me, I can take it... /forum/images/graemlins/bangtard.gif.

Right, I'm off to tell me mum all about you bunch of meanies now, then you'll be sorry! /forum/images/graemlins/devdude.gif

Ha!
 
Re: A tight squeeeeeze \'n\' gargoyles

Hey Treespotter they call it SLOPEN also in Holland, they did by Pius.

Mark, had this conversation on Friday night over a FEW BEERS with Maurice and Chrissy before she headed back to New Zealand, got interesting. But I´ll call it a rigging dismatle to set the record straight. Our english language is the oldest in the world. (Brits Abroad)

Scotty
 
Re: A tight squeeeeeze \'n\' gargoyles

Sorry, didn't mean to sound like I was beating up on Mr. Bridge. Just looking at different terms--and making notes for the next edition of the Glossary of Arboricultural Terms.

All good info.
 
Re: A tight squeeeeeze \'n\' gargoyles

Here's one for your glossary, Mark. Wreck. That's what we call it here. Wreck job, wreck it out. A rather broad term used on the west coast meaning: the dismantling of a tree. Ah! Though in everyday use the term doesn't always imply rigging or roping was used in the tree. That's a question that generally follows. "The tree you wrecked out, did it need to be rigged? or, did you have a drop zone?"

I've been hearing the term "Technical Removal" used more and more lately. Though it still leaves you wondering if riging was needed or not. "No roping necessary, I was able to stuff it in the bucket."

Terminology is very geographic and can be rather colorful in use. I've heard a lot of arguments over the use of certain terms, which I've often felt was a pure waste of breath. But some remain staunch on it. As our industry comes closer together through these forums the terminology we all use may soon meld into a univeral language.

Jerry B
 
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