A First

Well it is done. The infamous Telluride trees are killed. Under thretening skies and numerous "stink eye" stares we hacked them down yesterday. The Cotton wood had a large amount ( 40% or so) about half way up the trunk from an old flush cut. The job went flawlessly. A couple of lessons learned- working out of of town is tough- 240 mile round trip albeit beautiful drive. Lesson 2- Damn those houses looked expensive from up top there. The subject property I have now been told is about to be listed for over 10,000,000.00. Damn, what does that make a bent gutter worth 10 grand? As it turned out my adversarial/mercenary friend ended up chipping the brush from phase 2. I guess he came around to my way of thinking.
 
so the trees are out of their misery. hope you came out ok after all the drive time and wiat time. $10m house? Seems they could make sure you were compensated for your work keeping it "safe".
 
The compensatory factors of the job were completely my responsibility. The cheekiness of you response is not lost on me friend. Just wondering how much of you business(if in fact you are an arborist) involves tree removal and when you deem it appropriate to remove one. He is the bottom line my man: what it boils down to in this imperfect world that we live in is that these houses are worth alot more that those trees. The owner of them wanted them out. He had good reasons that I agreed with and I had the tools and needed the loot.End of story.
 
Really the story is about money, not "worth", safety or anything else. I have no doubt that these trees were situated incorrectly but they were removed because of money. My guess is the postive benefits these trees provided will never be replaced.
 
Hey no cheekiness intended, skew. I agree it looks like the trees' useful lives were over.

"The compensatory factors of the job were completely my responsibility." This is what I was asking--were you on the clock or stuck with a firm quote? I am on the clock more often than not, one good reason being unpredictable weather factors and drive time.

O and I'm an arborist 100% of the time, and a removalist a shrinking part of the time. If you want to see where I condemned a landmark tree, read the Andersonville thread.

Thanks for sharing the stroy, it was a good one.
 
MR tree- the trees are being replaced in more appropriate locations with more appropriate species. Disagree this was totally about money. I felt that these trees were compromised to a point to where if they did fall or break it would have been way more difficult and dangerous to deall with not withstanding any damage or injury that might have ocurred. When you say never- that is a really long time. The replacement trees are going to be a while before they provide the values of the removed trees but hey we deal in long term propositions here in the tree world. As well the trees were not really providing much in the way of scenic beauty or enjoyment to the public due to their crap location.
Compensatory factors were as follows: a fixed bid that was pretty damn high- that said I didn't leave any room for error which I like to do on tricky removals just to allow myself ample time to do whatever it takes to get the tree down with out making any mistakes. Fortunately these went off without a hitch but it was still a little nerve racking. Sorry no pics of the final axe falling but I was too preoccupied to worry with taking any.
 
Agree totally skew. Have felled many a tree for long term benefits. Ravine rehabilitation jobs where we plant native species and remove some big Norway maples and other non-native invasives.

Otherwise healthy trees but really in the wrong place.
 
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A couple of lessons learned- working out of of town is tough- 240 mile round trip albeit beautiful drive. Lesson 2- Damn those houses looked expensive from up top there.

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I understand that.

A man in Klamath Falls, Oregon, needed a Certified Arborist to give an opinion on his trees, to get the city to demand that the next door trees be removed.

The city had an arborist, but couldn't get involved.

(homeowner shouldn't have needed an arborist - very obvious: topped trees, decay, he had been hit once while mowing the lawn, huge dead chunks broken and hung up in the 150 long row of old butchered elms)

I wanted to go to Crater Lake anyway, so I only charge hime $250 for one way and the 30 minute visit.

Then I buzzed on over to Crater Lake for the rest of the day.
 
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Really the story is about money, not "worth", safety or anything else. I have no doubt that these trees were situated incorrectly but they were removed because of money. My guess is the postive benefits these trees provided will never be replaced.

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The "value" of the tree may simply be that it is alive, and created by God if you believe in God. Maybe all things have a right to be. A question to contemplate.

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oh great, religion and ethics have crept into the equation.
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Simply put, a tree is great for the enviroment, but sometimes you need to cut them down. It has NOTHING to do with money, social status, "god" or the ruling elite. The trees in question were replaced with other trees and shrubs, so in the end nothing was lost.

sometimes a tree is just a tree, notch and drop, buck it up for firewood or slab it for furniture. Nuff said
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SRTTECH it is quite clearly everything to do with money. Skew said it himself "He had good reasons that I agreed with and I had the tools and needed the loot". Further more the only reason we work on trees is that we can be paid for it, otherwise every single person would be working at something else. Simple economics and explained by Marx.

You need to read a little if you honestly believe nothing was lost. How many small trees are needed to replace the leaf and needle area of the trees removed, a lot more than what was planted. Loss of leaf area has a direct impact on the beneficial ecological funtioning of the trees. There was something lost, just something that the owner did not fell was needed.

Maybe, just maybe, if you thought just a little bit you might realize that the comments you quote are to make you think. If all we as arborists ever do is think with our pocketbooks and strictly for the property owner's benefit then what contribution are we making for the future?
 
mr I agree with most of what you say, but this
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Further more the only reason we work on trees is that we can be paid for it, otherwise every single person would be working at something else. Simple economics and explained by Marx.

[/ QUOTE ]I think most arborists would be arborists in a barter economy. Many of us climb as recreation and volunteer to do tree care in our spare time. I'm not sure you have the insight to back up your claim, and I know darn sure Marx did not. If he was so smart, N Korea would be a peaceful paradise.

Religion and ethics are in every equation, because our decisions and our actions are based on our values.

Money is just concentrated energy, nothing evil about it.
 
Guy I am sure I have far more insight than you do. We are not in a barter economy, nor do we make our living by climbing for recreation or by volunteering, these are things that working has allowed us to do. From what I have seen on this site (there is even a topic called Does anybody climb fo' fun anymore?) we are working arborists and not doing very much with trees for other reasons.

Do you even know what I am referring to by mentioning Marx? North Korea has nothing to do with the idea that we work at something that we can make money at. I am sure Adam Smith's ideas are creating a peacful paradise in the US where gun murders are a daily occurence and your president is bombing other countries.

The point about money is that we work for it and in Skew's current case he made his decisions because of it.
 
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Guy I am sure I have far more insight than you do.

[/ QUOTE ]Well then I will sit back and be bathed in your wisdom. My impression that I and many of my colleagues interact constantly with trees as a natural tendency and not out of greed or material need must be a delusion.
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, under which I must continue to labor until I reach your level of enlightenment.

I still look forward to seeing your arboricultural insights published for a wider audience. If it is so flawless, it should not be withheld from all those lesser mortals.

As for your superior insights on economics, maybe you can debate communism vs. capitalism on the Tree Free Zone. That would be fun!
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The point of working with trees is that you are making money at it. Most people try to work at something they are good at and enjoy (many don't achieve this). Thus many people who have a natural tendency to interact with trees will tend to make work from money in a job that involves trees. It is not greed, it just how the free market works, we do not make money from hobbies, and most of us need money to survive. Thus Skew cut down some trees to make a couple days wages, most people on this board cut, prune, fertilize, plant trees etc. to make money.
 
You are missing half of the equation though, aren't you? The point of working with trees is that you are making money with something you enjoy. For many, in any case.
You really should think about moderating your tone, I'm not sure if it's your intent, but it does come off a bit arrogant.
 
I don't think I am missing half the equation, just being realistic and applying basic economics. You may be making money at what you enjoy, that is half the point, the other half is you are doing something to make money. If you could not make money doing tree work you would likely work on your own trees on weekends and work at something else 40 hours a week to pay your bills. I imagine every company owner would love to find somebody to do the job for the love of it, but that does not bring home the bacon for the employee.

One of the great problems with working as an arborist (I use the term to refer to those who love and study trees) is you are very often in a conflict between money and your personal values. Virtually everday I must remove trees that are healthy, viable trees but the homeowner wants them removed. I have the choice to work removing trees and do a few preservation jobs or I can chose not to and let another company remove the trees and make money. At this point I need to make money (in this field), people have the right to chose what they want to do with their trees, so I must side with them in most cases. It is unfortunate but reality.

I do think we have to be honest, we may love trees but we work as arborists to make money. Further we need to be clear when consulting, are we being paid for an oponion or are we being paid to get permission to remove a tree. I would love to have customers side with my knowledge and preservation edict, but I am realistic in my need to make money.
 
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I do think we have to be honest, we may love trees but we work as arborists to make money.

[/ QUOTE ]trees4est was right; the point is that we work as arborists because we want to. The money thing is not the goal or even 1/2 of the goal. It is merely a means to an end. the gas in the tank is not what drives the car.[ QUOTE ]
Further we need to be clear when consulting, are we being paid for an oponion or are we being paid to get permission to remove a tree.

[/ QUOTE ] Oh yeah I remember, that was the start of this thread. And i totally agree with you on that. [ QUOTE ]
I would love to have customers side with my knowledge and preservation edict, but I am realistic in my need to make money.

[/ QUOTE ]As the celebrated socialist Woody Guthrie put it, the more you eat the more you s*it. Better is a low overhead and a high freedom to pick only the work you want to do. You will if things go right with tact practice more of what you believe.
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You are missing half of the equation though, aren't you? The point of working with trees is that you are making money with something you enjoy. For many, in any case.
You really should think about moderating your tone, I'm not sure if it's your intent, but it does come off a bit arrogant.

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I had always wondered about if that applies to workers who deal with utility line clearing.

But I haven't really asked any about it.

Do some of them enjoy that niche?

Or is it so different that it does not count?
 
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