a few questions for you guys..

N

nickdornfeld

im just starting out and have a few questions about some stuff and hope you guys can help me out.
1. how does the petzl sequoia hold up to abuse?

2. what is your favorite climbing line and strand count?

3. how long should my safety lanyard be, i plan on it being a double sided one?

4. do you prefer just the standard footlock or using foot ascenders while climbing?

thank you
 
1. Never used a Sequoia

2. 24 Strand double braid - Poison Ivy or Velocity
(search around, lots of threads on rope preferences here}

3. Totally depends on preference, I think 10-12' is a good starting point

4. Learn to footlock, it's worth it, safe, minimal gear, fast 1:1 effort, works with SRT or DdRT... and just plain cool. It's not nearly as hard as people make it out to be but you DO ACTUALLY have to learn the technique and practice. Switch to a Pantin later if you want.

Welcome to the Buzz.
 
First this quote from Treemagineers website with regard to foot locking:
[ QUOTE ]
...Disadvantages include the requirement for refining the technique over time and the high physical demands placed on the climber...

[/ QUOTE ]

And that's exactly what I've found every time I've tried it. I have not found any other method of climbing as demanding on energy and skill as foot locking.

It just may be that some take to it and some don't. The type of shoes/boots seem to even make a difference.
 
ive had a sequoia since they came out. it holds up quite well. ive replaced the bridge 3 times but everything else is still in working order. my coworker broke one of the leg strap buckles on his two winters ago and they replaced it in good time.
 
Ron, if you use ascenders on a short tether (one you can rest on and restart without difficulty) it's a LOT less physical than 2:1 systems plus, your legs do all the work. The Treemagineers quote is completely off base.

Once you have the technique down, which is more than just locking the rope on your feet, it almost doesn't matter what you have on your feet.

Agreed, some people aren't flexible enough to crunch up or turn their feet 90 degrees to each other, but most people are. Everybody I've seen that couldn't footlock wouldn't try it for more than 3 or 4 attempts and then they'd quit saying, "I just can't do it." and they'd be shaking their arms out. I wonder if those guys ever learned to ride a bicycle because it's about the same amount of learning and muscle memory.

If you keep your weight on your hands most of the time you WILL be exasperated... but that's the wrong technique. The only time you need to have weight on your arms is during the crunch phase, everything else is balance and legs.

I go 30' to 70' almost everyday, frequently several times... I'm not exhausted when I get to the top, breathing hard but nowhere near exhausted... and I'm 50 and no exceptional specimen. The thing is, it's FAST so you aren't using up as much energy as systems that take longer getting up the rope... and again, it's your big leg muscles doing the work.

If it were such a difficult thing in reality, nobody would do it and it wouldn't be a TCC prelim. The method is what's important, not strength. Nobody rides a bicycle first try, but I've seen lots of people footlock on their first attempt. It's just not that hard.
 
I'll give it another try, but even when I did a simulated foot lock, i.e. double handled-ascenders, Pantins on each foot, it was still hard. Of course, hard is relative so I'll expound by saying it's harder than a frog or a RADS.

I'll concede certainly that technique can make a difference, but then that takes us right back to Treemagineer's statement, "...refining the technique over time and the high physical demands placed on the climber...

But, how hard can it be if you can footlock? Just kiddin' ya!

But, what I've always had trouble with is the rope slipping between my feet, not the crunch or anything like that. What part of that seems to be is the rope getting near the heel of the top boot which seems to form a little 'valley' that won't hold the rope securely. That's what lead me to say that shoes/boots matter.

You know, now, because of you, I have to go out an try this useless method again!
grin.gif
I wasn't even going to climb today! I'm off for the summer. I shouldn't have to work this hard. But boy if it starts workin'....
smile.gif
 
Pinch the rope on top of your foot and point your toes down. See if that helps. It's not how hard you pinch the rope but rather, how you bend it over your foot and keep it bent... like a knot sorta.

Good thing you're off for the summer... tons of time to refine the technique. The best thing I ever learned was to go up one lock and then sit on my feet, taking the weight completely off my hands.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Pinch the rope on top of your foot and point your toes down. See if that helps. It's not how hard you pinch the rope but rather, how you bend it over your foot and keep it bent... like a knot sorta.

Good thing you're off for the summer... tons of time to refine the technique. The best thing I ever learned was to go up one lock and then sit on my feet, taking the weight completely off my hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

Grrrr! I know what you're doin' - you're just tryin' to make me work hard when I'm suppose to be takin' it easy.

This pointy feety thingy better work!
tongue.gif


Videos coming I'm sure - you guys will probably enjoy the humor.
 
[ QUOTE ]
I'll give it another try,...But, what I've always had trouble with is the rope slipping between my feet,...

[/ QUOTE ]
Ron,the lock is the foundation of the technique.
Some things to try would be locking the tail while supported by climbing system that supports your upper body thus reducing fatigue and allowing you to concentrate on getting a proper lock. Adding some weight to the tail will make the rope more stable and easier to catch. But what might be most helpful is reversing your top foot. It is amazing to see someone that was struggling with a left top foot suddenly succeed with a right top foot lock.
The lock should be strong enough to fully support your weight and rest on.
All that said, it will still need the flexibility and range of motion to accomplish this. I used to be very good at footlocking. But with range of motion limitations, I will rarely use it any more.
I also feel that those who are good at footlocking rarely put in the same effort in learning the other rope climbing techniques and, thus, sometimes underestimate their ease of use.

Dave
 
[ QUOTE ]
im just starting out and have a few questions about some stuff and hope you guys can help me out

1. how does the petzl sequoia hold up to abuse?

[/ QUOTE ]
never used it.

[ QUOTE ]
2. what is your favorite climbing line and strand count?

[/ QUOTE ]
whatever the company provides. 1/2", 5400 lbs... good to go.

[ QUOTE ]
3. how long should my safety lanyard be, i plan on it being a double sided one?

[/ QUOTE ]
this depends on the trees you intend to climb. Maybe make two.. a shorter on for little trees, and a bigger one for bigger trees? 12' is good advice...

[ QUOTE ]
4. do you prefer just the standard footlock or using foot ascenders while climbing?

[/ QUOTE ]
niether. Throwers knot, throwball, ladder, hanger pole and hooks and hip-thrusting get me by just fine 99% of the time.

good luck, stay safe
 
I tried footlocking for the first time the other day for a short section. I was able to do it, but thought that the grip strain was tough, especially for first thing in the morning if one were not to be warmed up. Ascenders would aid in that.
Spoken/ written by someone predisposed to wrist over-use and tendonitis (from rock/tree climbing, tree work, trail work, rock masonry)

I was also thinking of a "handle" that would slip over the two strands of rope that would increase the diameter, so one's hands would not have to grip such a small rope. I imagined some sort of foam grip like on bicycle handlebars with a slit down the length for easy slip on/ slip off grip. I'm one that would find it much easier to FL if I had a 1-1.5" grip, as one would find on those old school gym ropes. Rather than upsize the rope, just the thought to upsize the grip.

If I every work something out, I'll post a pic, if it works worth anything.
 
Years ago, I had some nerve damage to the nerve that 'activates' the muscle in my right lower leg that lifts the foot. Hence I don't have full power in that muscle like I do in the left leg. So I'll probably have better luck with the left foot being the 'under' foot.

I think you're right about some under-estimating the ease of footlocking. I've read no less than three references that footlocking is strenuous. Unfortunately, two, Petzl and Sherrill Tree, were selling 'solutions' relieve the problem. Of couse, maybe they have reason to believe that people are experiencing footlocking problems and they can help them.

Plus, I keep hearing the same thing - I use to footlock when I was younger, but....

I'm about 30 minutes away from being on rope to try this. You think I'll need to pour water over the gear to keep the heat down that's generated from climbing so fast?
grin.gif
 
I'm sorry Nick. Didn't intend to derail your thread. I've made a new one about footlocking technique. Back to the questions at hand...

[ QUOTE ]
1. how does the petzl sequoia hold up to abuse?

2. what is your favorite climbing line and strand count?

3. how long should my safety lanyard be, i plan on it being a double sided one?

4. do you prefer just the standard footlock or using foot ascenders while climbing?

[/ QUOTE ]
 
I'm with Blinky and Tom on this.

I do own the sequoia and so far it has held up well. I have yet to find the "perfect" saddle but this one works very well for me.

Lanyard...time and a place for everything! If you want a double ended keep it short 10 feet or so max. However I'd suggest you also keep a 15-20 footer single ended available. It works well for short double crotching and longer lanyarding situations.

Foot locking is very good but does take more energy than a rope walking system. But rope walking systems are expensive and, IMHO, people starting out should focus on the fundamentals with the least gear intensive methods.

Reason being, when the crap hits the fan and you don't have all your toys and doo-dads you can still get the job done, or extricate yourself from a crappy situation.

Master FL and Body thrust first, learn your basic closed system and split tail systems so you know them inside and out blindfolded and bleeding. Then add in the more complex and labor saving stuff later.

Just my two pennies!
 
hey guys,

thanks for all the input on this for me. i can do the foot lock technique but was wondering basically if the foot ascenders were worth the money and it doesnt sound like it.

thanks again
nick
 
Nick,

Foot ascenders ARE worth every penny you pay for them.

Look at the long term benefits. I have no clue how old you are or how long you've been climbing. If you want to have a long, healthy career with as few worn out body parts when you get older make use of good techniques and tools.

Too often arbos get caught at the crossroads of traditional and progressive [my terms, we've discussed their meanings in the past...check the archives] climbing styles and they've felt that there is some sort of demotion or dilution of the craft by using rope tools. Stop and think about the value of tools. How much did it cost to get you in front of a keyboard and connected to TreeBuzz? Would you go back to rotary dial phones or snail mail to try and learn? It works...but how well?

Many climbers have had conversion experiences when they get their first back ache or shoulder bruise. We realize our vulnerability and project out any number of years then realize that it's time to change our ways. Others just plod ahead and continue to wear themselves out.

Think of your joints as paperclips. How hard is it to break a paper clip if you give it a good wrenching? Can you also cycle it many times without breaking it? Get the metaphor?

All climbers should know how to safely climb using nothing but a single rope...no biners, snaps or Unicenders [that would be a tough one to give up :) ]. Set the rope using a monkey fist and tie a three loop bowline and heft yourself into the tree. One day you'll find yourself with just a rope and the opportunity to make a few bucks. There is no way that I would start a new climber at that level but it is a right of passage in mastering tree climbing to be able to climb with just a rope. Then, learn the progressive skills too. When you can afford a tool, get one. The gang here at TB are brutal when it comes to new gear. They'll dissect the performance and value and hopefully not leave you too confused.

By saving the wear and tear on your body when you're young you'll be healthy when a few decades of climbing pass under your boots.
 
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