A baby removal we just did
- Thread starter Roger_Barnett
- Start date
southsoundtree
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Olympia, WA
Jeff,
I don't know for certain, Roger will have to answer that. It may have had to do with the weight of the picks. As you know with conifers, the longest, heaviest, and hardest to predict limbs are also on the largest wood. I think that one log was 27,000 pounds, if I remember what I read, correctly. It would have meant trying to lower a 50-60'-ish spread into a congested landing zone with the crane, chipper, and chip truck. Then there would be limbing the short logs, then restacking a large volume of logs somewhere that the log truck would be able to get to. The log truck would have had to be able to load all the logs itself without the crane (don't know if the crane loaded any on the truck). It was a tight set-up that would have been more congested with the chipper and truck jockeying around to chip and dump onsite, over the edge of the driveway, down a hillside. Couple of 15-18 yard-ish truckloads, and I think that one load was going to be hauled away, maybe.
I don't know for certain, Roger will have to answer that. It may have had to do with the weight of the picks. As you know with conifers, the longest, heaviest, and hardest to predict limbs are also on the largest wood. I think that one log was 27,000 pounds, if I remember what I read, correctly. It would have meant trying to lower a 50-60'-ish spread into a congested landing zone with the crane, chipper, and chip truck. Then there would be limbing the short logs, then restacking a large volume of logs somewhere that the log truck would be able to get to. The log truck would have had to be able to load all the logs itself without the crane (don't know if the crane loaded any on the truck). It was a tight set-up that would have been more congested with the chipper and truck jockeying around to chip and dump onsite, over the edge of the driveway, down a hillside. Couple of 15-18 yard-ish truckloads, and I think that one load was going to be hauled away, maybe.
southsoundtree
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Olympia, WA
Again, you'll have to get specifics on the reasoning from Roger. I suspect more pictures revealing the layout, size, etc. can inform more about the situation.
Day one was a couple of hours, day 2 was limbing--long day, day three was craning. Cutting the butt cookie evidently took an hour. I wasn't there to see that whole craning situation.
It was 158'.
Seems that riding the ball is not happening in much around here with the crane companies, unfortunately, as that would change the removal scenarios with crane-assist dramatically.
95%-98% of the limbs were rigged down for protection of the shrubs underneath, which could have taken 20 years to grow to that size. Only some small dead limbs and stubs were thrown. I don't know how many limbs that was, but If you figure a half dozen limbs per whorl, and 2' whorl spacing, at 100'+ worth of limbing, its going on 300 pieces.
The larger limbs had to be slung mid-length to clear obstacles, and sent individually. This required up and down climbing to thread the climbline and rigging line correctly.
The dangle-y nature of the limbs meant some had to be done sequentially.
There were some widowmakers to be careful of dislodging onto people and obstacles below.
There was time to dump chips a few times.
Climber changeover time, and unforetunately the chainsaw winch was not operational, as mentioned, so time and energy go into climbing.
Jeff, by fold and hang, do you mean to rig each limb to the trunk, then lift smaller trunk picks with half a dozen limbs dangling from each whorl, like an octopus?
I like the idea of this, but don't think it was practical to hang a 2-300 limbs without tangling them, in which case the limbs on the pick would have likely tangled in the limbs on the spar, having to be broken free over the climber, house, garage, rhodies/ other landscaping, and the asphalt driveway.
Day one was a couple of hours, day 2 was limbing--long day, day three was craning. Cutting the butt cookie evidently took an hour. I wasn't there to see that whole craning situation.
It was 158'.
Seems that riding the ball is not happening in much around here with the crane companies, unfortunately, as that would change the removal scenarios with crane-assist dramatically.
95%-98% of the limbs were rigged down for protection of the shrubs underneath, which could have taken 20 years to grow to that size. Only some small dead limbs and stubs were thrown. I don't know how many limbs that was, but If you figure a half dozen limbs per whorl, and 2' whorl spacing, at 100'+ worth of limbing, its going on 300 pieces.
The larger limbs had to be slung mid-length to clear obstacles, and sent individually. This required up and down climbing to thread the climbline and rigging line correctly.
The dangle-y nature of the limbs meant some had to be done sequentially.
There were some widowmakers to be careful of dislodging onto people and obstacles below.
There was time to dump chips a few times.
Climber changeover time, and unforetunately the chainsaw winch was not operational, as mentioned, so time and energy go into climbing.
Jeff, by fold and hang, do you mean to rig each limb to the trunk, then lift smaller trunk picks with half a dozen limbs dangling from each whorl, like an octopus?
I like the idea of this, but don't think it was practical to hang a 2-300 limbs without tangling them, in which case the limbs on the pick would have likely tangled in the limbs on the spar, having to be broken free over the climber, house, garage, rhodies/ other landscaping, and the asphalt driveway.
southsoundtree
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Olympia, WA
Part of the reasoning MAY have been that the people wanted the tree to become something more than heat. Roger mentioned that all the lumber will be going to one craftsman. Who knows what it will become. He has the scoop.
I'm sure he'll have some good info when he gets back online.
It is one of those trees where its big when you drive in and see it, but only really get the idea of how big when you have walked up to, and around the tree, then climbed high up into it. I only got up to maybe 110'. I'll bet people looked pretty small when Dave or Roger got to the topping cut, which either was taken small and free dropped (very narrow window from that height, even with zero breeze) or rigging had to be pulled up 140 or 150' and set. Higher up in the tree it was useful to use a pulley and foot ascender for hauling. Serious bicep cramp time, otherwise.
I'm sure he'll have some good info when he gets back online.
It is one of those trees where its big when you drive in and see it, but only really get the idea of how big when you have walked up to, and around the tree, then climbed high up into it. I only got up to maybe 110'. I'll bet people looked pretty small when Dave or Roger got to the topping cut, which either was taken small and free dropped (very narrow window from that height, even with zero breeze) or rigging had to be pulled up 140 or 150' and set. Higher up in the tree it was useful to use a pulley and foot ascender for hauling. Serious bicep cramp time, otherwise.
Roger_Barnett
Participating member
- Location
- Seattle, in the PNWet
[ QUOTE ]
i still dont understand why you didn't speed line the top out and use the crane to finish the dismantle and do it in one day maybe two.
[/ QUOTE ]
No chance!
Day one was about two hours setting two lifelines, two speedlines, and two lowering/control lines.
Day two was filled with the massive job of delimbing the tree. It was impossible to go fast. While it was a bit awkward in the tree at times, due to its size, we kept the groundies very busy, except when there was only one climber aloft. But, when there were two climbers aloft, there was waiting involved, due to the difficulty of getting the limbs down, and chipped. They had to be cut a bit...and I had instructed everyone to save the butts for later, so as to fill up the truck more slowly...even though we were able to dump three loads on site, any downtime was unwanted. So, to have been perfectly efficient, we actually needed 4 or 5 on the ground during the double climber aloft times. But we only had four, three for the first two hours till Katrina recovered from a headache.
The tree was 158 feet tall. The 90 ton crane was 60 feet away. Even with 157 feet of main boom, it could only reach about 130 feet. So, the next morning, Dave had hand sawed and speed lined about 15 more limbs, (plus tossing a few little ones down or onto the zip line) then pushed a small top clear of the rhodos, and maybe dropped a coupla chunks, I don't recall. The first crane pick was 44 feet long, and only 3000 lb. It needed to be long for it to be butt heavy and stay upright.
After that, succeeding picks gained weight quickly, all the way up to the 20 foot bottom section that weighed 27,000 lb, about 5000 above what the chart said. That was a snafu which occured while I was home making a 72" chain...the section was supposed to be cut at about 14 feet, which would have left an 8 foot butt, instead of about 2 feet.....
I estimated total tree weight at 115,000 lb.
Further time was consumed with maneuvering the huge wood onto the log truck. That bottom 20 foot piece had to be cut in half, as the crane couldn't even set it down horizontally, as it would have swung uncontrollably. And, it took me at least an hour to make the butt cut...couldn't make the bars cut straight, save for the 42" equipped 066. Stuck the 60 inch bar, had to cut up close to it with the 72, pound wedges, and tug with the crane to finally get it out, then continue with bypass cuts where the cuts didn't match up, till it finally
i still dont understand why you didn't speed line the top out and use the crane to finish the dismantle and do it in one day maybe two.
[/ QUOTE ]
No chance!
Day one was about two hours setting two lifelines, two speedlines, and two lowering/control lines.
Day two was filled with the massive job of delimbing the tree. It was impossible to go fast. While it was a bit awkward in the tree at times, due to its size, we kept the groundies very busy, except when there was only one climber aloft. But, when there were two climbers aloft, there was waiting involved, due to the difficulty of getting the limbs down, and chipped. They had to be cut a bit...and I had instructed everyone to save the butts for later, so as to fill up the truck more slowly...even though we were able to dump three loads on site, any downtime was unwanted. So, to have been perfectly efficient, we actually needed 4 or 5 on the ground during the double climber aloft times. But we only had four, three for the first two hours till Katrina recovered from a headache.
The tree was 158 feet tall. The 90 ton crane was 60 feet away. Even with 157 feet of main boom, it could only reach about 130 feet. So, the next morning, Dave had hand sawed and speed lined about 15 more limbs, (plus tossing a few little ones down or onto the zip line) then pushed a small top clear of the rhodos, and maybe dropped a coupla chunks, I don't recall. The first crane pick was 44 feet long, and only 3000 lb. It needed to be long for it to be butt heavy and stay upright.
After that, succeeding picks gained weight quickly, all the way up to the 20 foot bottom section that weighed 27,000 lb, about 5000 above what the chart said. That was a snafu which occured while I was home making a 72" chain...the section was supposed to be cut at about 14 feet, which would have left an 8 foot butt, instead of about 2 feet.....
I estimated total tree weight at 115,000 lb.
Further time was consumed with maneuvering the huge wood onto the log truck. That bottom 20 foot piece had to be cut in half, as the crane couldn't even set it down horizontally, as it would have swung uncontrollably. And, it took me at least an hour to make the butt cut...couldn't make the bars cut straight, save for the 42" equipped 066. Stuck the 60 inch bar, had to cut up close to it with the 72, pound wedges, and tug with the crane to finally get it out, then continue with bypass cuts where the cuts didn't match up, till it finally
Roger_Barnett
Participating member
- Location
- Seattle, in the PNWet
[ QUOTE ]
you guys couldn't fold and hang the limbs from the trunk and make smaller trunk pics? i still don't get why it takes three days to do a sound wood, green removal.
[/ QUOTE ]
Likely, you've never done a tree that large...Few on the board have. How many giant old tulip trees, elms, cottonwoods, or oaks were over 8-10 feet on the butt and 150 feet tall? I recall the Wye Oak was estimated to weigh 400,000 lb or so?
Cowboy Dave, working for STP, did the last larger tree in this area, a 12 foot sequoia, back in 1997 or so. It was done, brush and all, but with a 200 ton crane. (If there have been other residential trees of that size removed in this area, then I stand corrected...but I doubt it seriously.)
We barely got the 90 ton crane in (and the log truck) as it was...if you read my last post, you'll comprehend why it was possible to crane ONLY the wood from this behemoth.
Oh, and the tree took portions of 4 days. We ran up against the curfew on crane day as well....and still had nearly a truckload of limb wood to chip, and scads of cleanup of the massive piles of bark..that fell off when craning and log loading.
Plus, on the fifth day, I had to click the log truck driver through the gate, with my loaner gate opener. And help him load the remaining logs...and rake up more mess. That took over 2 hours....nothing goes fast when loading giant heavy logs.....
you guys couldn't fold and hang the limbs from the trunk and make smaller trunk pics? i still don't get why it takes three days to do a sound wood, green removal.
[/ QUOTE ]
Likely, you've never done a tree that large...Few on the board have. How many giant old tulip trees, elms, cottonwoods, or oaks were over 8-10 feet on the butt and 150 feet tall? I recall the Wye Oak was estimated to weigh 400,000 lb or so?
Cowboy Dave, working for STP, did the last larger tree in this area, a 12 foot sequoia, back in 1997 or so. It was done, brush and all, but with a 200 ton crane. (If there have been other residential trees of that size removed in this area, then I stand corrected...but I doubt it seriously.)
We barely got the 90 ton crane in (and the log truck) as it was...if you read my last post, you'll comprehend why it was possible to crane ONLY the wood from this behemoth.
Oh, and the tree took portions of 4 days. We ran up against the curfew on crane day as well....and still had nearly a truckload of limb wood to chip, and scads of cleanup of the massive piles of bark..that fell off when craning and log loading.
Plus, on the fifth day, I had to click the log truck driver through the gate, with my loaner gate opener. And help him load the remaining logs...and rake up more mess. That took over 2 hours....nothing goes fast when loading giant heavy logs.....
Roger_Barnett
Participating member
- Location
- Seattle, in the PNWet
[ QUOTE ]
I have just one question. what did it cost?
[/ QUOTE ]
The client paid the crane bill, which was about $3200, prolly including tax. I asked for and got an extra $500, which made $6500 labor...Man hours were prolly closer to 85 than 95, counting most of mine. I could have asked for more, but want the client to be recommending me to anyone that asked....and The Highlands is a gold mine. (I already have a "huge" (lol) $350 job from the neighbor.) I'm going to ask the craftsman who got the wood to pay me $200 for my time helping load the second load of logs. He got the wood for only $1200 in trucking fees, when we could have asked for $200-300 mbf..and there was close to 10,000 board feet....I had priced the tree 18 months ago, and thought it might be low....but wanted to make sure we got the job....
That neighbor owns the other sequoia of the same age, but it is only 17 feet around versus 24, at breast height....it does appear to be close to the same height.
I have just one question. what did it cost?
[/ QUOTE ]
The client paid the crane bill, which was about $3200, prolly including tax. I asked for and got an extra $500, which made $6500 labor...Man hours were prolly closer to 85 than 95, counting most of mine. I could have asked for more, but want the client to be recommending me to anyone that asked....and The Highlands is a gold mine. (I already have a "huge" (lol) $350 job from the neighbor.) I'm going to ask the craftsman who got the wood to pay me $200 for my time helping load the second load of logs. He got the wood for only $1200 in trucking fees, when we could have asked for $200-300 mbf..and there was close to 10,000 board feet....I had priced the tree 18 months ago, and thought it might be low....but wanted to make sure we got the job....
That neighbor owns the other sequoia of the same age, but it is only 17 feet around versus 24, at breast height....it does appear to be close to the same height.
Roger_Barnett
Participating member
- Location
- Seattle, in the PNWet
I just returned from a trip to the Bay Area, via the coast. I shot 36 gigs worth of photos and video, of the redwoods and the coastal beach scenes. I needed way more time, so will be returning, for sure. Simply spectacular scenery.
I'm really busy, so don't know when the video from the job will get done, or more photos uploaded....plus there's the trip images to edit....
I'm really busy, so don't know when the video from the job will get done, or more photos uploaded....plus there's the trip images to edit....
Roger_Barnett
Participating member
- Location
- Seattle, in the PNWet
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
you guys kicked it HARD !
[/ QUOTE ]
Yea, you spanked the monkey hard. Not my monkey mind you but I'm sure it was someones.
[/ QUOTE ]
LOL, Holly. It would be a pleasure to work with you sometime...
Someone might learn something......
[ QUOTE ]
you guys kicked it HARD !
[/ QUOTE ]
Yea, you spanked the monkey hard. Not my monkey mind you but I'm sure it was someones.
[/ QUOTE ]
LOL, Holly. It would be a pleasure to work with you sometime...
Someone might learn something......
tomthetreeman
Participating member
- Location
- Rhode Island
Seems to me to be an efficient use of time and resources all around. The client got a good deal and you still made 70+ per man hour. I'm impressed.
I hope your trip was paid for with this job!
-Tom
I hope your trip was paid for with this job!
-Tom
Roger_Barnett
Participating member
- Location
- Seattle, in the PNWet
.Tom, my trip cost me maybe a few hundred in gas....I slept in my truck for three nites, save for the family part where we had a nice hotel. My sis paid the $1200 bill for the dinner memorial service--only 9 adults and 3 kids...it was a fabulous meal.
I just returned a call from Ness Crane. Apparantly, they miss figured the bill by neglecting to allow for overtime or something. So, they want an extra $1100. I referred them to the client, who paid the original $3200 bill. Bummer. They shoulda got it right the first time.
Efficiency has always been a strong suit of mine. Along with crew skill. It allows me to bang out jobs faster than most are capable of......well, unless the other company has a bucket truck, crane, or loader or some sort...for the times when those are helpful.
But, who knows, Holly might be able to show me a thing or two....heck, I've only been doing tree work for about how long he's been gracing the earth with his presence, so I prolly haven't figured out much of anything.
I just returned a call from Ness Crane. Apparantly, they miss figured the bill by neglecting to allow for overtime or something. So, they want an extra $1100. I referred them to the client, who paid the original $3200 bill. Bummer. They shoulda got it right the first time.
Efficiency has always been a strong suit of mine. Along with crew skill. It allows me to bang out jobs faster than most are capable of......well, unless the other company has a bucket truck, crane, or loader or some sort...for the times when those are helpful.
But, who knows, Holly might be able to show me a thing or two....heck, I've only been doing tree work for about how long he's been gracing the earth with his presence, so I prolly haven't figured out much of anything.
Jeff_Cochran
New member
- Location
- Memphis TN
Bump
Roger_Barnett
Participating member
- Location
- Seattle, in the PNWet
Thanks, Jeff.
I've been editing images from yesterday's job. 36" brushy ash. Took all day, filled the 18 yard chip box.
Here's a slideshow. I reckon the missing PPE, and single tie in's will draw some criticism
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rbtree/sets/72157634477822351/show
I've been editing images from yesterday's job. 36" brushy ash. Took all day, filled the 18 yard chip box.
Here's a slideshow. I reckon the missing PPE, and single tie in's will draw some criticism
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rbtree/sets/72157634477822351/show
- Location
- Gatineau, QC
Merle Nelson
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- SF Bay Area, CA
Fun to see those work pictures. Thanks!
Evan Sussman
Participating member
- Location
- Stanwood, WA
Roger, or anyone, can you point me to the original tree house thread? The link at the beginning is the going to the right place.
Gorman
Branched out member
- Location
- Rhode Island
Jean Claud Van Damnnnn that's a big one! How many times did you have to sharpen your chain flush cutting that stump?
New threads New posts
-
test
-
-
-
What's on your mind? TCI Magazine wants to know
- Started by Tree Care Industry Assoc.
- Replies: 18
-
Apr 09 (Free CEUs) & May 07 - 'Urban Forestry Today' Webcasts @ Noon (Eastern)- Started by UFT
- Replies: 0
-
-
