2023 Contract Climber Rates?

I guess you disagree that you have options on how and where to make an income? Or, whether to make an income at all?
I tried choosing no income. It sucked a lot. Was much harder than choosing to participate in a lot of other bullshit that carries some heavy karma. I'm not proud of all the fuel we burn to do what we do, but it's the best that I can do with everything being what it has been as long as we've all been here.
 
I tried choosing no income. It sucked a lot. Was much harder than choosing to participate in a lot of other bullshit that carries some heavy karma. I'm not proud of all the fuel we burn to do what we do, but it's the best that I can do with everything being what it has been as long as we've all been here.
Kind of ties back into the op a little bit. If you make enough dough you can afford to take a lot of time off for other pursuits. I worked 3 days a week for 4 years or so and it was a pretty nice life. Had to make some good coin in those 3 days though, at least to live in this town. Something like 150 bucks an hour!
 
You feeling good going into the next year? It’s no joke striking out, stress and crossing fingers for no injuries. Going to change anything business/gear wise?
Feeling great! I know my most of my expenses were start up costs that are mostly taken care of now. A lot of stuff you just don't think about. Equipment wise I'm golden as long as my truck holds together one more year. Only thing I'll really be changing is my advertising scheme. Last year I was throwing money in a bunch of directions trying to get my name out there. Now I have the information about where to focus it to get the best return.

Stress wise it was actually the least stressed I've ever been working. Full control is such a relief. I'm a people pleaser so when I was an employee I was always stressing trying to keep things running smooth and efficient. And I was always damaging things due to rushing. Only thing I broke last year was a $10 downspout cover and that was only because I tripped and landed on it while.dragging brush.

I had a couple of significant injuries, but nothing that kept me layed up. I hobbled through them. By mid November though I was starting to feel my body ache a little more and getting slower. I'm kind of grateful things slow down a lot here during the winter. Gives me a chance to recoup. Who knows, maybe I'll hire someone this year, although I love the freedom of being a one man show.
 
I'm compelled to mention this anytime anyone mentions "THE TRAGEDY OF THE COMMONS"

Dr. Lin Ostrom won the Nobel prize for economics for her work looking at successful community management of commons, debunking the myth of the "tragedy" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elinor_Ostrom

That communal management inevitably fails is an outright lie

Outlined with humor and more specifics here. https://srslywrong.com/podcast/235-the-imaginary-tragedy-of-the-hypothetical-commons/
I didn't mean to imply that it's the only outcome; I am pro co-operation.
 
There's a very successful solar installation company I know of that's a b Corp in town here and some electricians too.
I'm working my way through this thread, so maybe I'll find out this has already been covered once I finish reading the entire thread.

I was just thinking that the subject of "B" corporations sounds interesting enough to be discussed in its own thread, if there are any members with knowledge about them. I'm not saying that they should not be discussed further within this thread, however.

This entire thread is a really interesting read.
 

Didn't mean to hurt anyone's feelings, sheesh:chica:
Thanks for the link. I'm still reading through it, but this concept has been discussed for more than two centuries, I think, by some very eloquent people. One of whom was an actual slave, who then was liberated and had to work for wages. So his take was of particular interest to me, in what I've read so far. Thanks again.
 
I think it is really interesting the direction this thread has gone. It is the direction that I feel strongly it needs to go. Contract climbers are workers who are taking control of their wages by forgoing the benefits of being an employee: work comp, unemployment insurance, not to mention the tax benefits of being a W2 employee vs paying self employment tax… But why not form companies or shift companies to be slightly different models where a rising tide raises all ships instead of one guy at the top benefiting greatly and paying everyone else the minimum to maximize profit? This model encourages people who feel like they have topped out salary wise to start their own thing or become a contract climber to have freedom and to start getting their slice of the pie. A good friend of mine in Portland and I regularly have conversations about a different model where the business would not use contract climbers but instead everyone would be an employee paid an hourly rate and be covered by workers comp. At the end of every quarter hours would be tabulated and based on the profit and loss statement for that quarter, bonuses would be paid out. All financials would be accessible to employees to review. It doesn’t have to be owned or controlled by the employees or all decisions made by consensus or anything like that to really give people a sense of a company working for them as much as they work for a company. Maybe I’m too much of an optimist about this subject, but I think that workers who feel that it benefits them to think about profitability will certainly do so more.
 
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I think it is really interesting the direction this thread has gone. It is the direction that I feel strongly it needs to go. Contract climbers are workers who are taking control of their wages by forgoing the benefits of being an employee: work comp, unemployment insurance, not to mention the tax benefits of being a W2 employee vs paying self employment tax… But why not form companies or shift companies to be slightly different models where a rising tide raises all ships instead of one guy at the top benefiting greatly and paying everyone else the minimum to maximize profit? This model encourages people who feel like they have topped out salary wise to start their own thing or become a contract climber to have freedom and to start getting their slice of the pie. A good friend of mine in Portland and I regularly have conversations about a different model where the business would not use contract climbers but instead everyone would be an employee paid an hourly rate and be covered by workers comp. At the end of every quarter hours would be tabulated and based on the profit and loss statement for that quarter, bonuses would be paid out. All financials would be accessible to employees to review. It doesn’t have to be owned or controlled by the employees or all decisions made by consensus or anything like that to really give people a sense of a company working for them as much as they work for a company. Maybe I’m too much of an optimist about this subject, but I think that workers who feel that it benefits them to think about profitability will certainly do so more.
Also, if workers realize the margins, they will likely be happier with what they have rather than seeing the work orders and think that going out on their own is going to make them rich. Freedom and a sense of controlling one’s destiny are sometimes more valuable to people than just a sense of security. Every worker is going to be different and is striving for something different.
 
Self-evaluations and supervisor evaluations would be an important part in the profit sharing model.


How much of what would be profit to be split getting re-invested into equipment, marketing, etc, could be contentious, along with how much of the profit the owner, who has sooo much more skin in the game, is fairly entitled to keep.

The owner is largely married to the company and the location, and needs to keep it running year-round, whereas employees have an easy time uprooting at any point and moving companies/ states/ countries, as well as being able to take a leave-of-absence.
 
If a worker is a lazy bum, he’ll be a lazy bum however thickly you butter his toast.

There has to be lines of authority, respect and rewards get earned over time.
I agree.




I've never hired a lazy person, just some people who don't want to get with the program, as somehow they think they are entitled to change the program to fit themselves.
 
Also, if workers realize the margins, they will likely be happier with what they have rather than seeing the work orders and think that going out on their own is going to make them rich. Freedom and a sense of controlling one’s destiny are sometimes more valuable to people than just a sense of security. Every worker is going to be different and is striving for something different.
I somewhat agree with you, but have a few questions and statements.

As an owner of a tree business, or any business that has high cost equipment, I think I would want some kind of employee buy in to be used towards these costs in a model like you mentioned (or b corp etc). If i am the only one putting out thousands upon thousands of dollars, why shouldnt I be the one making thousands upon thousands profit. High risk to high reward, lower risk to lower reward...but a steady reward as an employee vs sometimes not steady for employer.

So if you bring in a friend/sub to run the ground for you and he brings no other gear (maybe has his own insurance), do you split 50/50 with him? Or if the tree business is paying him directly, should he get the same amount as you? Both make the same profit...because in some ways that is what some of comment say on this thread. If not, how much more profit should you make? How much more profit should the tree business make over you? How much per hour should the business employee make?

Then after that is all added up, is that a fair price for the homeowner to pay to have said tree removed/trimmed...whether they are rich or poor? In my opinion that price should be the same (rich or poor).
 

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