2023 Contract Climber Rates?

I'd be curious on how the expenses and startup risks are shared in a b Corp etc. How does training costs get handled, for first "employees" of the company. Who makes the decision about the direction of the company, majority vote? Is getting a few stock options getting something profitable in the company? I'm talking a young to medium size company

The were many times my employee was making more a year than I was. Sure my gross was a lot higher but so was my costs. Too many employees just see the dollar signs on the estimate, and don't know most of that goes right back out. In the end I'm making out OK, because I stuck with it for 20 years. I took the risks and heavy equipment cost, getting the customers etc, so why shouldn't I have some money at the end.
 
L3VI said:
I have a friend who I kind of encouraged to get into trees, he really fell in love with the work. I offered to get him a job with several different businesses in town, he told me he would never take a job. Because I was imbued with the slavish mindset I was offended, I thought he should have to pay his dues like I did. 7 years later and he's got a successful tree business and is a great tree man, I'm happy for him.
Click to expand...
How do you go about getting clients or insurance when you start a high liability business that you don't have any experience in because you don't want to work for anyone? Don't you think this person missed out on a lot of knowledge by not working with anyone? Could he be considered a slave to youtube and instagram?
 
Ent said:
Thats brilliant. At least he can avoid any liability and workers comp that way. Most successful businees people that I know pay themselves as an employee of said company. Often times as @climbhightree said, my employees make more per hour than I do. So how does that work with the wage slave scheme. Am I a slave to myself?
Click to expand...
You still have to pay workers comp on subs
 
Sfoppema said:
How do you go about getting clients or insurance when you start a high liability business that you don't have any experience in because you don't want to work for anyone? Don't you think this person missed out on a lot of knowledge by not working with anyone? Could he be considered a slave to youtube and instagram?
Click to expand...
I started by buying the gear, and practicing on my own trees. Low and slow. Then I started talking to neighbors and anyone I met, and if you do good work for cheap, the referrals flow.
 
The ‘business owner’ and ‘contract climber’ relationships I have observed and experienced here in Asheville and also in NYC are ones of mutual respect, comradery, and friendship. No one is screwing the other person over. It allows for a variety of levels of investment and engagement and generally means people get an appropriate sized piece of the pie. It works well and I wish those kinds of healthy professional relationships for all of ya.

I just wish our pie was bigger.
 
southsoundtree said:
If profit is theft, what is capital investment?
Click to expand...
A cost to be recovered. That money isn't profit yet. Profit comes after all costs are recovered, and all service providers are fairly compensated.
My issue is with people who wanna just collect paychecks long after they cease to do anything. I get the feeling that's not any of you guys
 
Last edited:
Ent said:
As for making the pie bigger and creating strong tree men and women with solid skills and safety. Check with TCIA and/or your state labor dept. Here in Colorado some good people have started a registered apprenticeship program. Basically a company sponsors them with work and pays for an apprenticeship taught by local professionals. Its a bit of work to go through all the paperwork(because govt). Considering the potential addition of skilled tradespeople it could provide, even if they move on to their own thing or another company, & the legitimacy it could provide to a industry viewed as not up to par with other trades, it's worth the effort & investment I think.
Click to expand...
I don’t think that helps. NC is a very unregulated state. (Unless you’re a midwife in which they make it next to impossible).

So any dingus with a chainsaw can charge a few hundred bucks for a job that should cost thousands. And homeowners know that and they make their choices based on their bottom line.

I worked for one of the few TCIA accredited companies in the state, but unfortunately I don’t think that moves the needle much when it comes to bidding.
 
Sfoppema said:
You still have to pay workers comp on su
Click to expand...

Matias said:
A cost to be recovered. That money isn't profit yet. Profit comes after all costs are recovered, and all service providers are fairly compensated.
My issue is with people who wanna just collect paychecks long after they cease to do anything. I get the feeling that's not any of you guys
Click to expand...
What about retirement or investment? If all cost are recovered and service providers are fairly compensated who is the victim of this "thief". Making money, being paid, compensation, profit seems like the same thing.
 
Job pricing largely comes down to supply and demand. If you are the best in the area and people are willing to wait for your services, there is no reason you shouldn't charge a premium for your services. If you have nothing more than the next person as far as equipment or expertise the job now becomes a competitive bid. Every market is different, and that takes some time to figure out. Know your competition, and make it your job to set yourself apart.
 
owScott said:
What about retirement or investment? If all cost are recovered and service providers are fairly compensated who is the victim of this "thief". Making money, being paid, compensation, profit seems like the same thing.
Click to expand...
So, there's a philosophical aspect that represents my highest aspirations for all, and then there's all of the various aspects of our current place along our timeline.
Ent said:
Also assuming all liability of property damage, injury, death. All of which are extremely stressful to think about and plan against as well as expensive as hell to insure. Means to production. You seem to insinuate this is some sort of entitlement. Well lets break that down. Probably the biggest thing that contributes to tomorrow having work on the schedule for the company is the many years of working for others gaining the priceless EQUITY of knowledge in the trade. Failures, successes, injury, and the too many to list other shit involved in getting to the point I can properly bid & schedule a job. Other Means to production-equipment purchase, maintenance, repairs, dot inspections, training how to use equipment, training of saw maintenance & proper use, climber training, safety training, safety meetings, purchase of ppe/work clothing/climbing gear, employee hiring, daily employee communications/check ins, employee injury/sickness, no shows, scheduling of jobs with proper equipment & crew, bidding of jobs, id of trees, id of pest or disease, workers comp audits, gl audits, answering emails until 10pm, phone calls till 7pm, calming neighbor disputes & the few disgruntled customers, website development, advertising, gaining search engine presence, municipal licensing, professional licensing & related ceu's, security of work equipment, etc etc etc. EQUITY- Im not sure if you have looked into selling a tree business but they aren't worth much. A client list doesn't mean shit. Equipment is bought and immediately starts depreciating. It will never be even close to the value it was purchased for. Not to mention repairs & maintenance over the life of this equipment will come close to what you paid for the equipment. I would delegate any of this in a heart beat with appropriate pay but I doubt anyone with a sane mind would do it for the rate I do it for.
Click to expand...
That sounds like a lot of work, and I would want to see you able to delegate any amount of it that you'd like to, and for that to be a realistic thing, but I can't wave my hand and make it so, and very few people could, and none of them are lining up to do it. Merriam-Webster includes in the definition of 'profit':

2: the excess of returns over expenditure in a transaction or series of transactions.
Your labor, and your expertise should be fairly compensated, and that is an expense of the company. A lot of those situations you described are because of things ha ing been the way they've been for as long as they have, and much of the status quo in grossly unsustainable.

There's so much to address but a lot of things trace back to the brutal nature of where we came from. We self domesticated over eons, and it was a very slow and gradual process. How we arrived at a world full of private ownership over practically every last thing on the planet is that at some point, some took what they felt they needed/was theirs by divine right. If you did this today, we would call you a thief.

A lot of the collected, inherited wealth has been concentrated into the hands of a smaller and smaller percentage of all people. If you've benefited from this aspect of our history, I want you to know that I am not angry with you.

We are all hostages of the results of the various people and events that steered our history to this point now.

Fundamentally though private property is a result of theft. I am also familiar with the 'Tragedy of the Commons', and I won't claim to be the one with all the answers. I do believe that eventually we can come together in a way that seems impossible from where we are standing now. I am a ridiculous optimist, and I will continue to invest every ounce of myself and every resource over which I can gain control to ringing forth that reality, even if I am just a link in a chain that extends far beyond my lifetime.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

New threads New posts

Kask Stihl NORTHEASTERN Arborists Wesspur TreeStuff.com Teufelberger Westminster X-Rigging Teufelberger
Back
Top Bottom