kstreehuggerco
Participating member
- Location
- Loveland. Co
Objection your Honor, speculation!
20 pages
- Thread starter guymayor
- Start date
- Status
guymayor
Branched out member
- Location
- East US, Earth
Murkiness bugs everybody; that's why we wait for the sediment to settle, and avoid stirring things up and blurring the differences.
"This should not have been done, but that does not mean the property owner did not have the right to do it. We can not legislate consideration and good taste."
But we can and should legislate trespassing and taking of property.
That tree cutting left wounds that cannot seal, so Dryness (the real D in CODIT) invades and takes the life of living cells.
That tree cutting, even if done at the line, invaded the tree that is owned by a neighbor.
That tree cutting takes away an excessive amount of the tree's resources needed for overall health, exposing it to pathogens.
That tree cutting made the tree structure lopsided (asymmetrical) and exposed the remaining tree to winds from that direction, increasing risk of failure.
That tree cutting caused a drop in Condition Rating, and a drop in the value of the trees. The neighbor has liabilities where there once were assets.
Will TL be there to see the City make its case? Are they selling popcorn?
"This should not have been done, but that does not mean the property owner did not have the right to do it. We can not legislate consideration and good taste."
But we can and should legislate trespassing and taking of property.
That tree cutting left wounds that cannot seal, so Dryness (the real D in CODIT) invades and takes the life of living cells.
That tree cutting, even if done at the line, invaded the tree that is owned by a neighbor.
That tree cutting takes away an excessive amount of the tree's resources needed for overall health, exposing it to pathogens.
That tree cutting made the tree structure lopsided (asymmetrical) and exposed the remaining tree to winds from that direction, increasing risk of failure.
That tree cutting caused a drop in Condition Rating, and a drop in the value of the trees. The neighbor has liabilities where there once were assets.
Will TL be there to see the City make its case? Are they selling popcorn?
TreeLogic
Branched out member
- Location
- Coastal SC
" Will TL be there to see the City make its case? Are they selling popcorn?"
No, I'm working. Wish I was able to make it though. My guess is they'll be let off with a slap on the wrist. Hopefully the whole ordeal is annoying enough to keep it from happening again.
No, I'm working. Wish I was able to make it though. My guess is they'll be let off with a slap on the wrist. Hopefully the whole ordeal is annoying enough to keep it from happening again.
Same thing I'm up against in court. Last case I had was an unlicensed guy who works for a line clearance contractor using the LC contractor's equipment on side work. Judge gave him a $300 fine. Hope the judge in C-town is better than the one I deal with.
treehumper
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Ridgefield, NJ
Supposedly, according to the city he had only a conversation with someone at the city but did not have a permit to do the pruning. If there is a paper trail required then he, the HO and the architect will all be expected to produce it. If they can't then they are in trouble. Here's the brochure regarding removal, pruning and definition of grand trees. http://www.charlestoncounty.org/departments/zoning-planning/brochures/Tree Ordinance Brochure.pdf
Bucknut
Carpal tunnel level member
Well, gotta admit those guidelines are reasonably clear.
I do think their definition of "grand" trees is fantastically absurd though. Any tree over 24" except pines? Crazy. Around here there are millions of trees that are big, but sure as s#!t ain't grand. Bet our friends up north had no idea how lucky they were to be surrounded by so many grand Big Leaf maples. And who wouldn't want a grand cottonwood next to their foundation? Tomorrow I'll be taking out a really fun grand ash that happens to be a 24" stick with a 30* lean over a house.
Guess what I'm saying is (in my opinion) they'd be better served by specifying certain species that can be considered grand (which would obviously include the ones Badeaux cut). Or maybe some definition of a minimum canopy spread. And their policy ignores the small grand trees, like magnolia, dogwood, jap maple. I've seen some real beauties that would apparently be unprotected in Charleston since most won't reach 24".
I do think their definition of "grand" trees is fantastically absurd though. Any tree over 24" except pines? Crazy. Around here there are millions of trees that are big, but sure as s#!t ain't grand. Bet our friends up north had no idea how lucky they were to be surrounded by so many grand Big Leaf maples. And who wouldn't want a grand cottonwood next to their foundation? Tomorrow I'll be taking out a really fun grand ash that happens to be a 24" stick with a 30* lean over a house.
Guess what I'm saying is (in my opinion) they'd be better served by specifying certain species that can be considered grand (which would obviously include the ones Badeaux cut). Or maybe some definition of a minimum canopy spread. And their policy ignores the small grand trees, like magnolia, dogwood, jap maple. I've seen some real beauties that would apparently be unprotected in Charleston since most won't reach 24".
TreeLogic
Branched out member
- Location
- Coastal SC
Bucknut,
We have some wierd municipalities around here. Some guidelines are very specific about species and some not so much. Pines can be cut down all day long in Charleston without permit, but in Summerville, 15-20 miles away, pines are sacred, and they'll fine the crap out of you for removing one without permission. I think what you posted (sorry, what treehumper posted) is Charleston County rules, but City of Charleston is handling this case. Not positive but I think so.
This would be the site to find the regs...
http://www.charleston-sc.gov
We have some wierd municipalities around here. Some guidelines are very specific about species and some not so much. Pines can be cut down all day long in Charleston without permit, but in Summerville, 15-20 miles away, pines are sacred, and they'll fine the crap out of you for removing one without permission. I think what you posted (sorry, what treehumper posted) is Charleston County rules, but City of Charleston is handling this case. Not positive but I think so.
This would be the site to find the regs...
http://www.charleston-sc.gov
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frashdog
Branched out member
- Location
- Champlain valley, adirondack coast
In our local city, property rights are vertical...the police know this too well there.
I have been involved with several jobs where the neighbors refuse to allow, "proper cuts" made to their trees that "invade" their neighbors property line. We always attempt to explain why we would like to cut the limbs back at a branch bark collar. No sympathy from the police for letting your tree get out of control round here, especially shrubs encroaching on city side walks. Same deal as utility companies right of ways. Most of us live in a 100% engineered environment, takes most of the natural out of nature.
If my out of control tree drops leaves on your yard...you are going to pick them up, those leaves belong to you now. If my dead tree drops limbs on your car or crushes your house, hope you have good insurance cause mine is not paying for it. That mess is yours. Sure you could sue, good luck with that.
Why don't the owners of the hacked trees do their part and have the trees properly cut the rest of the way? Why did they allow their trees to trespass in the first place?
Yea, Marshall is a ding dong. No one is arguing about that. What he did was his job...but what about? standards shmandards, until the isa or any other group with hands out for our money create laws and "real" licensing that control this kinda thing...Marshall is not to blame.
I have been involved with several jobs where the neighbors refuse to allow, "proper cuts" made to their trees that "invade" their neighbors property line. We always attempt to explain why we would like to cut the limbs back at a branch bark collar. No sympathy from the police for letting your tree get out of control round here, especially shrubs encroaching on city side walks. Same deal as utility companies right of ways. Most of us live in a 100% engineered environment, takes most of the natural out of nature.
If my out of control tree drops leaves on your yard...you are going to pick them up, those leaves belong to you now. If my dead tree drops limbs on your car or crushes your house, hope you have good insurance cause mine is not paying for it. That mess is yours. Sure you could sue, good luck with that.
Why don't the owners of the hacked trees do their part and have the trees properly cut the rest of the way? Why did they allow their trees to trespass in the first place?
Yea, Marshall is a ding dong. No one is arguing about that. What he did was his job...but what about? standards shmandards, until the isa or any other group with hands out for our money create laws and "real" licensing that control this kinda thing...Marshall is not to blame.
Treetopflyer
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Coastal N.J
Frash!You do raise points I would have to consider if I was a judge..
guymayor
Branched out member
- Location
- East US, Earth
"Why don't the owners of the hacked trees do their part and have the trees properly cut the rest of the way/"
Their part, of what? You propose to turn a rape into a gang rape. when too much is taken off, it's not 'proper' to take more off.
Reduction cuts to buds or small laterals is indeed proper pruning, look it up, see attached, or look at trees with eyes unclouded by dogma.
I'm not sure what a 'branch bark collar' is, but it is not the be-all and end-all of where to stroke the saw.
"Why did they allow their trees to trespass in the first place?"
Property rights near ground level may be vertical, but above ground, trees are going to grow, and there is no absolute right to hack them off at the line, in any town, even if you call it espaliering.
There is certainly no right to trespass and go beyond that line.
Their part, of what? You propose to turn a rape into a gang rape. when too much is taken off, it's not 'proper' to take more off.
Reduction cuts to buds or small laterals is indeed proper pruning, look it up, see attached, or look at trees with eyes unclouded by dogma.
I'm not sure what a 'branch bark collar' is, but it is not the be-all and end-all of where to stroke the saw.
"Why did they allow their trees to trespass in the first place?"
Property rights near ground level may be vertical, but above ground, trees are going to grow, and there is no absolute right to hack them off at the line, in any town, even if you call it espaliering.
There is certainly no right to trespass and go beyond that line.
treehumper
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Ridgefield, NJ
When you operate as a professional you have a duty to be knowledgeable of all the regulations that pertain to the work. Mr. Badeaux should have known the laws and the exact procedures within the jurisdiction he works. In the eyes of the law when there is non-compliance by a professional you're either negligent or incompetent. It's just a matter of determining which one. The hard work is for the professional to prove their actions were valid and the in accordance with the law or best practices of the profession.
Tree protection laws are still a political hot potato. They vary so much that it's a challenge to know all of them within your geographic territory. In my neck of the woods, there are 72 towns in one county all with their own tree ordinances. Some are not even listed as such but are found under stormwater management ordinances. While I agree that ISA and TCIA should be a force in the lobbying efforts to bring about consistency in these laws, it is a far more difficult task and one that involves local politics. That is an ugly beast to try to wrestle.
Tree protection laws are still a political hot potato. They vary so much that it's a challenge to know all of them within your geographic territory. In my neck of the woods, there are 72 towns in one county all with their own tree ordinances. Some are not even listed as such but are found under stormwater management ordinances. While I agree that ISA and TCIA should be a force in the lobbying efforts to bring about consistency in these laws, it is a far more difficult task and one that involves local politics. That is an ugly beast to try to wrestle.
frashdog
Branched out member
- Location
- Champlain valley, adirondack coast
Further more... And finally (half way through...) omg this is pure comical genius.
If there was not so much Tarzan tard Tarzan tard Tarzan tard I might have been able to mentally digest this turd. I figured it out. Most folks project their short comings/probs onto others...Tarzan clearly has the downs!
Team America, hell yea! I'll party with ya tardzan!
If there was not so much Tarzan tard Tarzan tard Tarzan tard I might have been able to mentally digest this turd. I figured it out. Most folks project their short comings/probs onto others...Tarzan clearly has the downs!
Team America, hell yea! I'll party with ya tardzan!
- Location
- Retired in Minneapolis
Tarzan is conveniently hiding behind a corrupted persona.
The real Tarzan was quite an exitentialist...respectful of boundaries...make the world a better place...oh well...
The myth that property lines go to the center of the
Earth and to the sky only works in casual conversation. There are many lawyers who make a good living showing that isn't the case.
then again, there are not so good lawyers who can't protect the tree owner's losses from knuckleheads who whack away and ruin their trees.
The court's will have their day...will Truth?
The real Tarzan was quite an exitentialist...respectful of boundaries...make the world a better place...oh well...
The myth that property lines go to the center of the
Earth and to the sky only works in casual conversation. There are many lawyers who make a good living showing that isn't the case.
then again, there are not so good lawyers who can't protect the tree owner's losses from knuckleheads who whack away and ruin their trees.
The court's will have their day...will Truth?
JeffGu
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Osceola, Nebraska
Does the third person (limited) point of view and apeman baby talk help with your credibility, Little_Tardstick, or are you just trying to be even more annoying than your usual "world's greatest climber" bullshit?
- Location
- Retired in Minneapolis
Oh...I'm a treehugger...been one my whole life.
I'll walk away from work that is 'blood money'.
Just because one 'arborist consultant' does what's best for their bottom line doesn't make them an arborist like me.
I'll walk away from work that is 'blood money'.
Just because one 'arborist consultant' does what's best for their bottom line doesn't make them an arborist like me.
frashdog
Branched out member
- Location
- Champlain valley, adirondack coast
Gang rape?! Really now.
Bucknut
Carpal tunnel level member
Tarzan... Quit the charade and write in English. If you want to be treated like an adult, begin by writing/acting like one.
Perhaps start by NOT calling a bunch of strangers "retards". You might find that some of us are decent folks who wish you well despite the semi literate rantings on your website and your most recent posts.
Perhaps start by NOT calling a bunch of strangers "retards". You might find that some of us are decent folks who wish you well despite the semi literate rantings on your website and your most recent posts.
frashdog
Branched out member
- Location
- Champlain valley, adirondack coast
20...???here we come!
- Status
