The difference between logging and Suburban Tree Work

A full length hinge undoubtedly provides more control to a stem. I still can't quite understand why you choose 2 thick posts instead of 1 long (tapered if need be) hinge. I understand the outside 2 corners are really all that is needed for directional control, but why take the risk of removing the center, especially on urban trees where defects are plenty. It seems like a bit of chainsaw showmanship and wasted moves in that setting. In the woods where every inch of that veneer log counts and to get it on the ground without tearing, splitting etc the extra work pays. In someone's yard you are adding an additional what if. And I don't like it. You do you man, but I hope people aren't paying to much attention to your vids cos this is one that takes some serious technical knowledge. I think someone/something could get messed up.
I learned how to gut a hinge in 2013. So I've only been using it for 11 years on the regular. I have never used it in an urban setting. I still do tree work to stay current and sharp, but it's not my every day.
Be safe. This video was taken yesterday while cutting on a logging job.

P.s
Why you would take a running start on a pull tree with a front end loader sounds insane. Especially with the tree cut up amd standing on posts. I guess I'm playing a diff game then you Daniel.
Be safe
Most of my trees are straight enough that I just use the center plunge to fascilitate the falling cut. Like I said, I AM running 24" bars on all my big saws now. When hinge strength isn't needed, the center plunge is just fast and easy. There's not much to think about or any way to over or under cut anything. So I don't know what you're talking about when you say "extra work"... At most it's a matter of seconds. But actually, the ease of the cut can save time. Time that might be spent on banging out the notch or repostitioning the saw to match the cuts perfectly etc... Making a fuss over a few extra seconds on a falling cut makes no sense when you're dropping only a tree or two a day in Arb work. Whereas, saving 30-60 seconds on each falling cut can really add up at the end of the day for a logger.

When hinge strength is needed the center plunge becomes a much more deliberate and precise operation. I rarely if ever cut a little and pull a little.. I decide where and how much to take out of the center, then cut up the hinge with plunge and the back cut to my premeditated specs, and then call for the pull. Sometimes I will pretension the pull line and wait to see a little movement in the back cut before I stop cutting and call for the pull. With the rare really tight shots, I may stay at the stump and steer the tree with the back cut, but that isn't often needed in my market. And many times these days, I AM doing both the cutting and the pulling, as my old equipment op just lost his second leg to daibetes. So I have no choice but to cut up the hinge and then get in the machine and pull.

That maple was 5' across on the long side. I actually didn't use my saws on it, but I'm pretty sure the last saw I used was a 24" bar. At most it ws 28" ... And I wasn't going 20 miles an hour when the loader hit the pull lines. I just brought it up a few feet to put a little slack in the lines, so the machine wasn't pulling from a dead stop. I'll see if my buddy has the video on his phone... Why would you think there's a problem getting a little momentum with the loader?

It seems that we are indeed operating in two different worlds. You think I'm crazy and I can't understand why I have to explain this stuff to faller of your experience.

Before I explain how to the center plunge adds more strength to the hinge can someone please tell us what does hinge strength mean? In other words what benefit does hinge strength offer the faller?


for an experienced faller hinge strength means only ONE THING. It's going sound obvious once someone says it, but rarely if ever do people mention this important disctinction...... Once that is understood, then the way by which the center plunge adds hinge strength should be fairly simple to understand.

Does anyone here care to explain? ANY TAKERS???
 
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Here's one we were fighting a huge and heavy side lean on... Probably should have a had a guy line on it, except that was going to be hard to rig... look carefully to notice the oak that's already down has another center plunge and very small posts

 
Here's a center plunge 30 second short video form 6 years ago...but I think I just published the video 6 years ago, the job was likely 10+ years ago.

you ever get any of those fat hardwood logs to a mill? I have a buddy who has a comically large collection of enourmous logs, some seven feet across, and he has been aquiring the equipment to start trying to mill pieces. I have yet to see almost anything actually get milled there.
 
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P.s
Why you would take a running start on a pull tree with a front end loader sounds insane. Especially with the tree cut up amd standing on posts. I guess I'm playing a diff game then you.
Good video... shows controlled pull... gave the hinge some time to break. See how long it took... that's a 10,000 lbs loader, with 2 pull lines. You could beat wedges for a month and that tree wouldn't budge. I actually didn't think it was going to go. I hit metal twice on the back cut and thought it was worth a try before risking another chain.
 

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For whatever it's worth, loggers pull with heavy machines and huge power, as needed. 10k is not much.

Standing in the skidder arch to set a pull line at 12' means needing real pulling power.

I used to use a little skidder a bit, a Garrett 15. We needed to chain the skidder to a tree or park a tire against the back side because the winch was so powerful, 20k or more.

That was a little skidder.

We ripped a huge, backleaning maple off a weakened stump with a 40' high pull line. It was nuts.

Modern skidders are way bigger and more powerful.

@chep , have you ever pulled a tree instead of wedging? My guess is yes.
 
Now I know what Kavenaugh beer boofing looks like but I think the funnel needs a bit more tilt:)

Math-ing words, resistance to side lean is classic cantilever beam with 2nd moment of area of cross section -- take away (gutting) some cross section area = taking away strength. You can ponder integral of R squared dA on your own (beer) time :)
 
Now I know what Kavenaugh beer boofing looks like but I think the funnel needs a bit more tilt:)

Math-ing words, resistance to side lean is classic cantilever beam with 2nd moment of area of cross section -- take away (gutting) some cross section area = taking away strength. You can ponder integral of R squared dA on your own (beer) time :)
Take it away in the middle and add it to the ends... it's not rocket science
 
I think your one sentence of clarification with "add it" in there instead of only "gutting" will help out the naysayers.

Stress-strain is actually the basis of a lot of rocket science .... ;)


brag - my son's best bud is working at Spacex

At some point there is diminishing returns to fattening up the posts because of the increased crush/pull fiber failure per degree of trunk tilt during falling. (reduces the working strength active cross section area)

trying to be informational not confrontational :)
 
At some point there is diminishing returns to fattening up the posts because of the increased crush/pull fiber failure per degree of trunk tilt during falling. (reduces the working strength active cross section area)
Thus the need for experience... and the contingencies that I referred to in an earlier post... there are ways to add flexibility to the posts. And the biggest contingency being having enough force to trip the fat boy hinge posts.
 
Good video... shows controlled pull... gave the hinge some time to break. See how long it took... that's a 10,000 lbs loader, with 2 pull lines. You could beat wedges for a month and that tree wouldn't budge. I actually didn't think it was going to go. I hit metal twice on the back cut and thought it was worth a try before risking another chain.
I have wedged over some stupid big trees duder. I had a 60' tall pondo spar, 48" dbh that I had misjudged the straightness of, and it turned out to have a little backlean. I fought that bitch for 45 minutes, but I got it done. I think your ego is at least as big as mine, but you gotta keep that fucker in check. Hubris is the downfall of many men, but if you can humble yourself, and realize that none of us is done learning, you may one day become as great as you think you are.
 
I have wedged over some stupid big trees duder. I had a 60' tall pondo spar, 48" dbh that I had misjudged the straightness of, and it turned out to have a little backlean. I fought that bitch for 45 minutes, but I got it done. I think your ego is at least as big as mine, but you gotta keep that fucker in check. Hubris is the downfall of many men, but if you can humble yourself, and realize that none of us is done learning, you may one day become as great as you think you are.
I don't pretend to know much about wedging trees, but it's hardly hubris to say I can pull a tree over with a loader that can't be pounded over with wedges. Did you see what it took to get that tree moving? Nor does it require ego to ignore the advice of someone that just called me "duder"...
 
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How’s this for bragging.
I was slightly off my lay and clipped the horizontal part of the top of the gate archway.
Cone was placed because I couldn’t see the open gate from the stump, which was about 7’ down a steep draw. In a fairly decent rainy foggy day
The tree isn’t bent, that’s the leaning shape of it.
Dynamic guy line 3:1 hand held by the groundy so it didn’t hang on too long
A 110’ noodle leaning right towards the front porch in a known root rot pocket.

I invented the cut so take some hard notes.

Second photo is for scale, different site but alders and not conifers. Huge difference is rarely can you even pick out the top 50% due to full canopy closure.332C1030-D6B6-402A-A069-D45D9A597ED7.jpegIMG_2391.jpegIMG_1114.jpeg
 
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Edit: Fence and gate were wavered. Telephone peg, power meter and little landscape trees were not. Saved the client thousands because no one would touch it without the 200t barged in from the mainland.
This is Duder business brah, or maybe I’m just full of it. Either way whateva
 
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Tough to see what's going on from the photos, but sounds like fun... and those fat hinges are pretty.

bragging is in the eye of the beholder... Just another day at the office seems like bragging to those with inferior skills...
 

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