Getting comfortable in bigger trees?

[Merle Nelson]

Additionally, you can make yourself more scared - or less by finding out what scared people do and doing more or less of it. Usually it's what you focus on. And the questions you ask yourself are excellent for causing focus in a certain direction.

 

[Jem4417]

You waited to pop out? Start that saw up and cut your way out! Gotta grab the bull by the horns...

Really, you shouldn't take too much of what I post seriously. Lighten up, have some fun and relax. You're not bringing your "A Game" if you're stressing about the job and forum comments about health and fitness. Years of stress will kill you dead on your way out of that fitness gym's door. You want to climb past age 50 you need to include that in your lifestyle, too. A beer with your buds. A blind date with a well-endowed circus midget. Anything that makes you forget what you do for a living and where you left your car keys. And, trust me, at my age getting out of bed and making it to the bathroom without injuring myself requires more effort than you probably spend getting 70 feet up a tree.

Now, look at this picture of a bunny, and relax.

View attachment 47288

Haha you'd be surprised when you should take me serious too. And I don't want to climb past 50 or 40 or 30 if I'm being honest. Plus if you want beer and midgets you come to pa o got plenty of both enjoy your trips to the bathroom

 

[Jem4417]

I gave up being scared over 35 years ago, and truth be told, I never had much to begin with. Excited, and my nervous system firing on all cylinders yes. Scared? Nope!
How the heck you gonna be of any use, if your scared?

im not talking about shitting your pants and crying but there's a healthy fear that is always there. When you take a ride on a sketchy spar, when a sucker breaks on a tie in point. When you can barely see your psp and it's bouncing on you. I'm sure people on here are experienced and have composure that surpasses your average arborist. But there will always be that next tree that you get that uneasy feeling in your gut. That tree where your entire track of time is lost because your concentration is at an ultimate focus. Scared can be defined differently but no matter who you are there is always a chance something unexpected can happen

 

[kiteflyingeek]

Have you guys ever faced a job and then when you got in the tree backed out because your mind said NOOOO!

Oh, yeah! I've had a number of trees when I ask myself, "why in the world am I up here instead of sitting at the desk doing my current day job?" I tell myself to calm down and then, "you are up here because being outside is what you really want & this is how to earn money too." After 1-2 minutes of calming myself down, I get back to work.

So, yes. I understand where you are coming from, @climbingmonkey24! And here in SW Indiana, we don't have trees that grow much over 120'. But it can still get sketchy when you are 50'+ in the air.

--andrew

 

[southsoundtree]

...That tree where your entire track of time is lost because your concentration is at an ultimate focus...

I kinda aim for this everyday. Fully focused on the task at hand. Try to shut out noise. Not due to fear, actually probably the opposite. Focus on the task and safety takes away fear.


The Rock Warrior's Way by Arno Ilgner is about mental control and doing things out of love, not fear. A book about mental training by a hard man rock climber. Transferable concepts. Remember, in rock climbing taking a 20-30 foot fall happens, routinely. Concern about intermediate TIP/ anchor failures is real.

 

[climbingmonkey24]

Still in a similar boat.

For me rigging a big piece over a house isn’t the issue, or worried about damage. I trust my rigging ability. I guess when I’m in a bigger tree I don’t feel I move around it like I do a smaller one. I hesitate, I’m nervous. On smaller trees I’ll jump from limb to limb, swing from tree to tree, no problem lol. But the bigger stem, bigger branches, it gets to me.

In reality it’s just the same tree just bigger, but the size puts me in a different mindset I guess.

If I want to be a better climber it’s somethjng im gonna have to deal with. I limit my ability because of the fear.

 

[rico]

Forgot about this thread. Some funny shit here!
I’m curious how many of you who experience fear when climbing drink coffee before work?

 

[Merle Nelson]

A persons fear has a specific recipe. Just like a really good food item.

First you see, hear, feel, smell etc. A, then you see, hear, feel, smell etc. B - and so on until you are experiencing fear.

If the fear is not rational and you want to change it you can. You find someone doing the same thing and having the experience you want to have, then you "elicit" (ask specific questions to obtain) their recipe for that emotion and you copy it.

 

[joezilla11]

Forgot about this thread. Some funny shit here!
I’m curious how many of you who experience fear when climbing drink coffee before work?

Can u explain that one, I’ve never heard of that before.

 

[JD3000]

Haha you'd be surprised when you should take me serious too. And I don't want to climb past 50 or 40 or 30 if I'm being honest. Plus if you want beer and midgets you come to pa o got plenty of both enjoy your trips to the bathroom

What the Hell kinda bars you going to Jack?

 

[southsoundtree]

Still in a similar boat.

For me rigging a big piece over a house isn’t the issue, or worried about damage. I trust my rigging ability. I guess when I’m in a bigger tree I don’t feel I move around it like I do a smaller one. I hesitate, I’m nervous. On smaller trees I’ll jump from limb to limb, swing from tree to tree, no problem lol. But the bigger stem, bigger branches, it gets to me.

In reality it’s just the same tree just bigger, but the size puts me in a different mindset I guess.

If I want to be a better climber it’s somethjng im gonna have to deal with. I limit my ability because of the fear.

I'm going to speak rock-climber ease a minute.

When we were first learning "trad" climbing, on lead, the climber take a widget and widgets it into the crack or rock feature, attaches to said widget with the dynamic climbing rope, then climbs above the widget, getting another widget in the crack and attaching the rope to the wall, climbing above it, etc. Feels like rock climbing with an extra 15 pounds swinging around, in your way, that will just help you fall faster to your death when all the widgets pull out of the crack and you hit the boulders below. Very reassuring, right?

We were working on a 5.8. Stuff hard climbers were climbing in the 60's, with pitons.

We were at a crag, and this guy waltzed up a hard ass crack, 5.11 c/d, plugging in a widget hear and there. No big deal. This was in the catagory of waaaay past climbable in the 60's. They only made the free-climbing (progress by your body, gear to catch a fall, which could be 40' if things go badly) scale go up to 5.9, because then you hit the 6.0 grade (aid climbing, needing to pull on your gear for progress A0, A1, A2...).

I spoke with the guy, whose name may come to me. He said that he was taught the mantra for rock climbing...

Climbing is fun.
My gear is good.
Falling is safe.


Climbing is fun.
My gear is good.
Falling is safe.

If any of these conditions isn't true, what are you doing it for?



So trees are obviously different.

A mantra can help.

Climbing is fun (tree work is hard and potentially dangerous, though...but try to maintain a positive attitude).

My Gear is Good.

I will safely stay where I want to be.


If any of these is a problem, there is After Lunch, Later, Tomorrow, whatever. Having a plan is great. Forecasting how long the plan will take (my crystal ball is cloudy on time-estimating), and sticking adamantly to that plan (I can get x,y,z done today) is not great.

End of Day plan, everyone arrives in driveways in one piece, mentally and physically. That the milestone you need to reach EVERY day, not worrying about what you told the customer about timing, what you told yourself, what you told your dog.

 

[evo]

I crash at lunch. Not getting scared, but more voices that I have a hard time turning down. Yesterday started a pretty decent bigleaf maple not huge by any means. Couldn’t get in the groove, bite a few pieces off and called it. I was ahead of schedule and returning today. Well flew up the tree this am. Hit many of my targets. Got out in tips and kinda hit a wall, rythem was thrown and it felt like it was taking forever. Called down for a time check, 10 til 10. I was crushing the climb and time simply didn’t exist it felt like I was taking forever! Chipped cleaned up and home by noon

 

[climbingmonkey24]

I'm going to speak rock-climber ease a minute.

When we were first learning "trad" climbing, on lead, the climber take a widget and widgets it into the crack or rock feature, attaches to said widget with the dynamic climbing rope, then climbs above the widget, getting another widget in the crack and attaching the rope to the wall, climbing above it, etc. Feels like rock climbing with an extra 15 pounds swinging around, in your way, that will just help you fall faster to your death when all the widgets pull out of the crack and you hit the boulders below. Very reassuring, right?

We were working on a 5.8. Stuff hard climbers were climbing in the 60's, with pitons.

We were at a crag, and this guy waltzed up a hard ass crack, 5.11 c/d, plugging in a widget hear and there. No big deal. This was in the catagory of waaaay past climbable in the 60's. They only made the free-climbing (progress by your body, gear to catch a fall, which could be 40' if things go badly) scale go up to 5.9, because then you hit the 6.0 grade (aid climbing, needing to pull on your gear for progress A0, A1, A2...).

I spoke with the guy, whose name may come to me. He said that he was taught the mantra for rock climbing...

Climbing is fun.
My gear is good.
Falling is safe.


Climbing is fun.
My gear is good.
Falling is safe.

If any of these conditions isn't true, what are you doing it for?



So trees are obviously different.

A mantra can help.

Climbing is fun (tree work is hard and potentially dangerous, though...but try to maintain a positive attitude).

My Gear is Good.

I will safely stay where I want to be.


If any of these is a problem, there is After Lunch, Later, Tomorrow, whatever. Having a plan is great. Forecasting how long the plan will take (my crystal ball is cloudy on time-estimating), and sticking adamantly to that plan (I can get x,y,z done today) is not great.

End of Day plan, everyone arrives in driveways in one piece, mentally and physically. That the milestone you need to reach EVERY day, not worrying about what you told the customer about timing, what you told yourself, what you told your dog.

Good points.

I didn’t know you rock climbed.

 

[Jem4417]

What the Hell kinda bars you going to Jack?

Haha ugh I gotta switch back to pot

 

[samsquatch]

Still in a similar boat.
I guess when I’m in a bigger tree I don’t feel I move around it like I do a smaller one. I hesitate, I’m nervous. On smaller trees I’ll jump from limb to limb, swing from tree to tree, no problem lol. But the bigger stem, bigger branches, it gets to me.

In reality it’s just the same tree just bigger, but the size puts me in a different mindset I guess.

Another thought: when you're in a large tree, losing your footing hurts a lot more than in a smaller tree. You pendulum swing a lot further in larger trees (longer limbs, etc), especially in large trees that have been thinned or lion-tailed when there's nothing to grab or slow your swing.
Cheers!

 

[rico]

Can u explain that one, I’ve never heard of that before.

Coffee is a very powerful stimulant that can raise hell with your hormones. One thing coffee does is force your adrenal glands to produce more cortisol. Cortisol is the king of all stress hormones, and can cause fear, anxiety, anger, agitation, etc.
Like all things in life, some will be effected much more than others.
I have seen my fair share of very good climbers get the fear-bug when they are staring at a nasty 180-200 ft Fir. Some work through it, but many don't. I have personally witnessed climbers work through their climbing fears by stopping, or cutting way back on coffee consumption.

 

[SomethingWitty]

Forgot about this thread. Some funny shit here!
I’m curious how many of you who experience fear when climbing drink coffee before work?

You ever get to play in giant sprawling hardwoods? The feel is very different. I think I'd have some moments at 200' up a leaning pole. I've done a couple half that height (that's just about how tall our pines get, give or take). I also think I'd just do it. A couple of years ago I probably would have had second thoughts.
Nowadays, I might get a twinge once in a while before I get to my TIP if it's not obviously bomber, but I don't climb anything without coffee.
Frax nailed it when she said something along the lines of "once I look at the situation and decide what I'm going to do, that settles it. Being nervous or second guessing yourself is an unnecessary distraction."

 

[rico]

You ever get to play in giant sprawling hardwoods? The feel is very different. I think I'd have some moments at 200' up a leaning pole. I've done a couple half that height (that's just about how tall our pines get, give or take). I also think I'd just do it. A couple of years ago I probably would have had second thoughts.
Nowadays, I might get a twinge once in a while before I get to my TIP if it's not obviously bomber, but I don't climb anything without coffee.
Frax nailed it when she said something along the lines of "once I look at the situation and decide what I'm going to do, that settles it. Being nervous or second guessing yourself is an unnecessary distraction."

We have many large sprawling Oaks, Sycamore (Platanus racemosa), Bay (Umbellularia californica), Madrone, Maple, and Blue Gum Eucalyptus here. Many can get well over 100 ft, and I love working in them. Trees are trees, and fear is fear.
Like you I drink coffee, but it doesn’t work for everyone.

 

[southsoundtree]

Coffee definitely can lead to too much popping in your Central Nervous System.



Playing in big trees, as aforementioned, will help you get mentally conditioned to working in big trees.





I really focus on what is right next to me, and virtually always cut with an SRT system that will have me on the ground in a couple seconds.



There is a lot of "Cross that bridge when you come to it". This is not to say make the plan as you go along, just focus on the next task at hand, while planning 4-5 steps ahead.

If you are doing your biggest trees with poor ground support, consider hiring in a solid groundie.


As much as possible, I rig/ lower my own stuff.
I find that I can more easily jump in and out of the truck to hook up a tight trailer connection, rather than rely on low-competence assistance.

If you have to try to talk ground guys into how to land a piece or what to do next, you aren't focused on what you need to focus on.



My groundie said yesterday that he is attempting to listen more when its time to listen, rather than thinking when someone else is talking.

DUH. Right?
Oh, how prevalent this habit is in the world, especially with the short-attention-span-theater that occurs in general, and worse with smart-phones.




I start each exchange with, "Hey, Bob!" and wait for, "Hey, Sean!".

That, to me, says plenty. I need Bob's attention, and when Bob is done focusing on whatever he is focusing on, he can respond back to me, indicating he's ready to listen (theoretically).
This is the opening to Plan the Work, Work the Plan, Did the Plan Work?
Basically, the time to shut-up internally and externally, and have a focused communication of the plan.




Commonly, people will just keep going about their mental clutter, even when the voice of experience and knowledge is unambiguously saying to take the rope clockwise (there is only one clockwise on the entire earth, that I know of), they will be trying something else.


Don't try to do big trees without competent ground-support.

I tell my guys that its very simple that I can hire 100 people a day for good pay who don't have to follow directions and are allowed to do what they think should be done, and lose/ break my tools. No F'ing Thank You.

 

[SomethingWitty]

Yes. Good help helps make it into just another tree, even if it is giant and even if it sucks.
I can't help but feel your pain when you talk about hooking up to trailers by yourself because it is faster than having them tell you where to go and having to do it three times.