zigzag

I can see how the casing wounds/burs are caused but not how it will "shred" the cl. line...or even really affect/contact it in the location they are in. Seems insignificant to me but will check it out further tomorrow climbing. I don't have even a mark as of yet.
 
The location of the burr is relatively out of the way of the path of rope in normal configuration, though if the tail of the line was redirected through a point above the climber, I could see the potential for a real problem. If I could provide a comparison of the location of that burr, it would be as if the outside of the becket of a fixed plate pulley was dinged...or something similar to that. You'd have to really try to make the rope contact it there. More or less out of the way...but still not acceptable, at all!
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I'm running mine just about daily, and still don't see the kind of wear displayed in that photo. I have a bit of discoloration, but not much more than that. I have, and will continue to monitor this closely as I inspect my gear before every climb.

No piece of gear should encounter that type of deformation, regardless of the configuration, and regardless of the likelihood of rope contact in that area. Not cool.
 
perhaps...but if a device is being used outside of limits or configurations described in the manual (abused), then damage could be expected. Warranty voided. Liability eliminated.
 
If that burr situation begins to occur with my zigzag, a few seconds with a small mounted point on a Dremel tool or die grinder will eliminate the burr long before it can start eating ropes. Just something else to keep an eye on, and address if and when required.
 
You may want to see where the pulley bracket is touching the SS sidelink to cause the burr,and round that over also.

I believe the damaged to the rope pictured on the Arbtalk site is caused by the relatively sharp edge of the half circle notch on the bollards. The reason I say this is because when I was making my pully/rack there was a similar edge on the side links, which was starting to damage my Yale XTC fire in a similar manner. When I rounded over those edges it fixed the problem. As the rope compresses the sides of the rope tend to run over onto the edges.

Perhaps Beesandtrees could comment on how the pulley/rack is treating his rope?
 
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perhaps...but if a device is being used outside of limits or configurations described in the manual (abused), then damage could be expected. Warranty voided. Liability eliminated.

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This wear is occurring even when the Zig Zag is being used in DdRT configuration, as the manual instructs. Yes, I have used mine in SRT, though the contact that creates the burr exists regardless of the mode the unit is being used in. Many people are pointing the finger at SRT usage, but let's all remember that the issue shows up in DdRT use as well.

Also, Petzl's manual discusses use for SRT descent with a munter for additional friction. Now, regardless of what supplemental friction is being used, the ZigZag is shown in the manual as acceptable to hang from without the top eye of the frame as part of the dynamic overhead belay system.

How on earth could a climber descend in SRT with a munter below the ZigZag, and secure a lanyard around a stem to position for the next cut without letting go of the munter? Once the climber is not holding onto the munter, the ZZ will be in the same orientation as found when using the Rope Wrench above it, however, WITHOUT the RW, there will be even MORE pressure at the contact point, due to the ZZ holding ALL of the climber's weight, rather than 1/2.

This is not an arguement about SRT vs. DdRT with the ZigZag, this is to point out that there is either a problem with the unit, or Petzl needs to rewrite the user manual. I feel there is a problem with the unit itself, only because, again, the cam-to-frame contact exists in DdRT configuration.
 
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I've been using the zz since jan. with velocity. And I just recently saw the pics showing the wear points with srt use. When I checked mine out it was showing wear in the same location, even though I have not used it with srt. Has anyone else seen the same results?

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That clinches what many have been suspecting, the wear is there DRT or SRT (as Oceans mentioned). Stainless steel wins against aluminum. Looking forward to seeing the Petzl redesign ;-)

As a first step they could finish the steel cam surface a little more friendly, in the close-up photo it's pretty rough looking, a ready-made cutting surface. They could build a steel bumper into the main body to meet the moving steel. I'm sure they'll figure it all out eventually. I think they're every close to a recall at this point.
-AJ
 
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I can see how the casing wounds/burs are caused but not how it will "shred" the cl. line...or even really affect/contact it in the location they are in. Seems insignificant to me but will check it out further tomorrow climbing. I don't have even a mark as of yet.

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The fibers in the burr could be anything: clothing, glove, or rope. The problem is the steel link/cam arm is beating up the aluminum body. Doesn't look like any kind of catastrophic failure is about to occur but in the long run not a good design for that part of the ZZ.

I'd guess climbing style will effect rate of wear. Climbers who push it with fast drops/hard stops will cause more impact in that area. Climbers who run it smooth will probably see no wear or less wear,
-AJ
 
As mentioned above, the fibers above are probably from my gloves, the zz has eaten a few pair this winter. I am how ever wondering if rope size is one of the contributing factors. I put my velocity(11mm) through the zz in jan. and am still running the same rope. 11 mm is at the bottom of the spectrum for the zz and would allow the friction links to extend further than with a larger rope.
 
If you were as tough as the boys from State College, you wouldn't need gloves...lol

It's great to have you on the buzz. We have to convince Craig to allow us to climb some of those big trees at Mont Alto.

Donny
 
One of the guys at our company has one. His rope (tachyon) although used looked brand new before using with the ZZ. Its glazed really bad now, and its got a lot of fuzz going on. I took a closer look at the ZZ today at work. Its got burrs on both the top and bottom. I can't see anyway that the ones on top would be able to contact the rope. The bottom burrs are my main concern as the rope is running right beside them at all times. I certainly expected more from this product.
 
I climbed all day today again on it putting in cables and noted some glazing probably caused by that noise made by baling out of the top of a tree yesterday. Rope on metal under weight at high speed (equals heat). May be analogous to the glaze caused by an LD on a line under weight and speed.
 
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It was suggested in the SRJ forum to view this link to a blog post at treetoolz. It may interest some here.

Certification Confusion for the Petzl Zig Zag

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That is a very well written article cited.

Also like further down where describing "genuine freaks of nature, guys genetically pre disposed to tree work". This is something Reg and I have discussed. Hey, why start something if you cannot finish it? I am 64 and still work full time and make an amt. of money that would shock you by me putting absolutely everything on the ground that I get paid for, myself. Cheers to all you old timers out there and salute and...sorry for the tangent ...but it is devices like this that make these prolonged careers possible and especially...enjoyable.
 
Hell yeah! A well recognized brand/logo should not be your ticket to approval for use in competition. The rope wrench is still not approved and it's a much older, well proven tool.
 
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