Not worried about the dumb-asses, just more frustrated than anything with the way they portray our work to others around the area. I work safely regardless of them guys. Safety is always number one, A dead man can't make any money or take care of his family. Always worried about safety I would say Mrtree... tree are no joke! So many EAB around my area to we got devastated, lots of dead tree's with no access to any equipment.
Young man killed felling tree
- Thread starter pdj317
- Start date
treehumper
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Ridgefield, NJ
Mason, mrTree said it and your gave a perfect example. They are incidents, perfectly predictable and preventable. When we identify these events as accidents or worse yet, freak accidents, then we perpetuate the notion that we are in the most dangerous industry. We are not. We work the most dangerously by simply not treating safety seriously.
Yes. We only need to read these forums where we see people arguing for one-handed chainsaw use, 2X height no-go zones as stupid, or challenging anybody with a safety mindset as not being realistic, and demanding safety rules be written in the standards or they are not needed.
Yeah I understand what you're saying. Where I live, most guys only tie in once with a lanyard, they one hand, they free climb. I watch and wonder to myself how some of them are still alive. Saving the 20 seconds to tie in a second time isn't worth me accidentally cutting myself out. It's nice to talk with guys who have experience and a safety mindset like you guys. Not used to it. I need a good mentor lol!
I am very much in agreement. I really don't care about whether somebody kills themselves, does bad work, or is entirely uneducated. What does bother me is trying to be better and be financially rewarded when dumb-asses portray themselves as arborists.
Exactly! Or some lady or man who has a $500k house on Lake Huron tries to lowball me or compare my prices to one of those hacks and tell me its my competition. Then proceed to hire the kid/or drunk with a pickup truck, no helpers, no insurances, just a saw! Even though they're probably getting whats coming to them with shitty work or a lawsuit it still bothers me a little.
TimBr
Official Well Known Greeter
- Location
- Northern Virginia
@Mason; It's nice to be reading you! I see you've been a member here for almost two years, but this might be the first time I've noticed a post of yours. I hope you jump in with both feet, now, and post more often.
Have you started your own company, already, or do you still work for someone else? If you have started your own thing, I'd love to hear more about how all of that is going, maybe in the correct part of the forum for that stuff.
Tim
Have you started your own company, already, or do you still work for someone else? If you have started your own thing, I'd love to hear more about how all of that is going, maybe in the correct part of the forum for that stuff.
Tim
Yes, long time creeper haha. I love this website and I really admire a lot of you guys. I work for my fathers company, but hes a electrician by trade. He started the company when the economy crashed to try and get into something new. Eventually I was sucked into it and with the hunger for information taught my self everything I could teach myself. What part of the forum do people usually introduce themselves TimBr?? I've been meaning to do it forever now!! You guys honestly are the ones who taught me how to climb. Rip Tompkins really got me started with a week or 2 arbor master course, but that really only pieced basics together for me and inspired me to teach myself the rest. It's been quite the journey, and I'm only 23 so I still have a world of knowledge, technique and experience to acquire.
TimBr
Official Well Known Greeter
- Location
- Northern Virginia
Hey, Mason! Thanks for the answers. Cool that you're getting to work for your father.
I don't think there's a dedicated place for introductions; I just tend to welcome people to the forum when I manage to notice that they've just joined up recently, or have made one of their first few posts. So, just in case it has never been said to you, "Welcome to the TreeBuzz forum".
I'm a lot like you, only a lot older. I'm not a pro like most on here, and like you, I'm just trying to learn what I can. You have the huge advantage of being a young man at about the most exciting time in arb work, as far as the revolution in tools and climbing techniques is concerned. I'm an old guy who's just happy to have a chance to experience it all. At your age, though, you have the strength, stamina and ability to heal up quickly that makes it possible for you to become a truly great climber.
I think you have a really great attitude, also. Humble, eager to learn, and with a sense of humor. Men will teach everything they know to someone who comes across the way you do.
So, welcome, again, and feel free to post often. Most of us don't bite.
Tim
RopeShield
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Ontario, Canada
Who trained this individual to fail to die?
What industry allows this to happen?
What government/s allow this to happen?
What kind of industry association fails their members year after yr?
the profits of big corporations seem to be far more important than the the safety/mandatory involuntary apprenticeship and licensing. Unionize like other skilled trades carpenter, plumber, electrician etc. Red seal trade would make things better for us all who spend time In and around trees.
Well I can tell you it likely had something to do with individuals and an industry where people will argue for years that one-handing a saw is correct (and better).
In the last week on this forum we have seen you argue for one-handed chainsaw use, we have seen Daniel argue that a 2X tree height rule to stay away from a falling tree is stupid and a few other examples of tree workers refusing to acknowledge that manufacturers, trainers, loggers, government H&S organizations and those that make the laws may actually know something and make laws with the intent to save lives, not matter how much you believe that they are all stupid, lazy, unskilled, weak, sissies, inept or any number of other adjectives.
COWARD that is quite funny.
Please find me one Health and Safety Professional that supports you in your continued quest to justify one-handed use, in fact please also get a letter of support from the president of Husky or Stihl. Also find one single piece of arborist standards or guidelines anywhere that supports your thoughts.
Otherwise ..... you have not proved your point.
Please find me one Health and Safety Professional that supports you in your continued quest to justify one-handed use, in fact please also get a letter of support from the president of Husky or Stihl. Also find one single piece of arborist standards or guidelines anywhere that supports your thoughts.
Otherwise ..... you have not proved your point.
Welcome, Mason.
I'm Dave. The learning never stops, nor does the craving for new gadgets.
TCI Expo coming up in Baltimore Nov. 10-12 would be immensely interesting if you can make it.
RopeShield
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Ontario, Canada
Read the article. If something isn't clear I will clarify the best I can.
Stihl has used some of the same points I hav made. There you go
Stihl has used some of the same points I hav made. There you go
RopeShield
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Ontario, Canada
The article by the way is a concerted effort from members here and elsewhere. People I trust and call friend. They help me to stay alive. Corporate America runs the shit but not in my yards/trees. They can all fuck off. Don't care to listen to us? Fine move on its getn toxic like all the ferts and pesticides they push
Daniel
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Suburban Philadelphia (Wayne)
ANd now back to the subject of this thread..
Apparently the climber made the cut that came back and pinned or crushed him.. sounds like it was a piece that was being lowered.. that changes things significantly... unless you all just want to gripe about something that didn't even happen
Apparently the climber made the cut that came back and pinned or crushed him.. sounds like it was a piece that was being lowered.. that changes things significantly... unless you all just want to gripe about something that didn't even happen
Would be awesome to go an meet some of you guys. Yeah, I wish we could get some more info on the incident. Now it sounds like a case of improper work positioning/rigging. It's hard to blame a groundy for not letting a piece run when you're the one cutting it and rigging it. I don't know I'm still pretty curious about the whole thing. Not much to be learned without a detailed report.
TimBr
Official Well Known Greeter
- Location
- Northern Virginia
Not sure, @Daniel, this might relate to a thread I think you may have started that asked the question "How often do you put your life into the hands of your ground man?" It seems like we're missing a lot in the way of facts about this incident, but I think a couple of people in this thread have implied that it relates to a problem in lowering the load. So this guy may have made the mistake that you were arguing against in that other thread I mentioned. That of putting a ground man in a position to maim or kill you.
I will say right up front that I do not have enough experience to know whether it is always possible to set up rigging in a way that keeps the climber out of harms way, or not. I've seen some people express the sentiment that having a good ground man running the ropes makes the team so much more efficient, that they have a hard time even thinking about the possibility of doing self-lowering. The guy who says that, though, is in my mind admitting that he does put his life into the hands of the ground man, and often.
I mostly work alone, and do my own lowering when the stuff can't just be tossed. Most of what I do is really small, just pruning. The one time I did have to lower some sizeable wood, I had an inexperienced ground guy with me to do the lowering. Fortunately, I had set my rigging up in a way that would cause the wood to swing away from me. No matter how hard I tried to explain what I wanted to see the ground guy do, when the moment of the cut and swing happened, he locked the rope up and held on for dear life. I guess he got excited. But it happened every time, and all the talking in the world could not get through to him.
So, my point is, having experienced this little bit of a situation with my ground guy, I can easily see how much trouble a climber can get into, and how quickly, by trusting that a ground guy A.) Knows what he's doing. and B.) Understood exactly what it was you were trying to ask him to do.
Hell, even after my ground guy locked up the rope, and the wood was swinging back and forth near my own elevation, I had to tell him three times to "Lower it!", Lower it!", "Lower it!" before he would comply.
The only thing that kept me safe was the fact that I had offset my rigging point so far away from me. That and the loss of energy as the swing progressed.
Anyhow, too long-winded again. I guess all I'm saying is that a really good rope man is worth his weight in gold, and you climbers that trust them to do right by you every single time are some bold individuals.
That is all.
Tim
I will say right up front that I do not have enough experience to know whether it is always possible to set up rigging in a way that keeps the climber out of harms way, or not. I've seen some people express the sentiment that having a good ground man running the ropes makes the team so much more efficient, that they have a hard time even thinking about the possibility of doing self-lowering. The guy who says that, though, is in my mind admitting that he does put his life into the hands of the ground man, and often.
I mostly work alone, and do my own lowering when the stuff can't just be tossed. Most of what I do is really small, just pruning. The one time I did have to lower some sizeable wood, I had an inexperienced ground guy with me to do the lowering. Fortunately, I had set my rigging up in a way that would cause the wood to swing away from me. No matter how hard I tried to explain what I wanted to see the ground guy do, when the moment of the cut and swing happened, he locked the rope up and held on for dear life. I guess he got excited. But it happened every time, and all the talking in the world could not get through to him.
So, my point is, having experienced this little bit of a situation with my ground guy, I can easily see how much trouble a climber can get into, and how quickly, by trusting that a ground guy A.) Knows what he's doing. and B.) Understood exactly what it was you were trying to ask him to do.
Hell, even after my ground guy locked up the rope, and the wood was swinging back and forth near my own elevation, I had to tell him three times to "Lower it!", Lower it!", "Lower it!" before he would comply.
The only thing that kept me safe was the fact that I had offset my rigging point so far away from me. That and the loss of energy as the swing progressed.
Anyhow, too long-winded again. I guess all I'm saying is that a really good rope man is worth his weight in gold, and you climbers that trust them to do right by you every single time are some bold individuals.
That is all.
Tim
