- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
I hope all my competitors take out big expensive yellow page ads that totally suck to pay for when the off season comes around. Personally, I think it's nearly pointless, especially with the kind of prices they charge.
YELLOW BOOK and advertising this year
- Thread starter goodaking
- Start date
- Location
- central Arkansas
I love how 3 different phonebooks ad salesmen all claim to have a 65 to 78% market share. I have backed off to a small presence in each.
This is a great thread full of useful info. Thanks!
This is a great thread full of useful info. Thanks!
mdvaden
Participating member
- Location
- Beaverton. Oregon
[ QUOTE ]
Goodaking:
Since 2003, I have been passing out magnetic business cards at every bid I do. Believe me, they are worth the money. People stick them on the frige or filing cabints. They stick around much longer than a regular business card. FWIW.
[/ QUOTE ]
The magnets have done well for me, in that folks don't loose name or number, and are continually reminded. Especially since the marbled green card with foil print stands out from most cards or magnets. I prefer the magnet blanks from staples to put on a card, because my cards have a better finish than any magnets I've seen.
Never liked the yellow page thing. Newspaper was good, but totally went downhill the past few years.
Goodaking:
Since 2003, I have been passing out magnetic business cards at every bid I do. Believe me, they are worth the money. People stick them on the frige or filing cabints. They stick around much longer than a regular business card. FWIW.
[/ QUOTE ]
The magnets have done well for me, in that folks don't loose name or number, and are continually reminded. Especially since the marbled green card with foil print stands out from most cards or magnets. I prefer the magnet blanks from staples to put on a card, because my cards have a better finish than any magnets I've seen.
Never liked the yellow page thing. Newspaper was good, but totally went downhill the past few years.
- Location
- Longmont, CO
[ QUOTE ]
Goodaking:
Since 2003, I have been passing out magnetic business cards at every bid I do. Believe me, they are worth the money. People stick them on the frige or filing cabints. They stick around much longer than a regular business card.
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Heck, I EVEN have a "Jamin Magnet" on my fridge!
It really must work!!
[/ QUOTE ]
And I hear bumper sticker work too. Right Chris?
"Pretty Cool, Huh?"
Goodaking:
Since 2003, I have been passing out magnetic business cards at every bid I do. Believe me, they are worth the money. People stick them on the frige or filing cabints. They stick around much longer than a regular business card.
[/ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Heck, I EVEN have a "Jamin Magnet" on my fridge!
[/ QUOTE ]
And I hear bumper sticker work too. Right Chris?
"Pretty Cool, Huh?"
- Location
- Longmont, CO
[ QUOTE ]
The next dimension to include is your conversion rate by lead source and revenue per lead source.
[/ QUOTE ]
I calculated this a few years back. (Gosh, I can be a nerd some times).
I figured that each phone call (lead) was a potential of making $330 dollars of income.
I did this by taking my gross sales and dividing that by the number of leads.
2009 would have been $338 dollars per lead for me.
And that is vital information for all of us. Because I hear all the time that frustrated customers call around because tree guys don't return calls. I learned early on that, if I was lazy any given evening, and I didn't want to return calls; well, that could be $330 dollars I'd be throwing away. I make certain that I return calls the in the evenings. (Maybe this year I'll have an office assistant).
And if have one of those days where I do manual labor until dark thirty to then need to put the kids down to bed... Well, I'll return the call the next business day.
The next dimension to include is your conversion rate by lead source and revenue per lead source.
[/ QUOTE ]
I calculated this a few years back. (Gosh, I can be a nerd some times).
I figured that each phone call (lead) was a potential of making $330 dollars of income.
I did this by taking my gross sales and dividing that by the number of leads.
2009 would have been $338 dollars per lead for me.
And that is vital information for all of us. Because I hear all the time that frustrated customers call around because tree guys don't return calls. I learned early on that, if I was lazy any given evening, and I didn't want to return calls; well, that could be $330 dollars I'd be throwing away. I make certain that I return calls the in the evenings. (Maybe this year I'll have an office assistant).
And if have one of those days where I do manual labor until dark thirty to then need to put the kids down to bed... Well, I'll return the call the next business day.
- Location
- Melbourne, Victoria, Australia.
What i meant more so was...
You record your lead sources.
Then your conversion rate (% leads that become sales)
Then break that down further, eg. Of 100 leads 30 were repeat, 30 were referral, 10 were yellow pages, 10 were newspaper, 20 were google.
Of those, 28 of your repeats became sales, 20 referrals became sales, 3 yellow pages became sales, 6 newspaper became sales & 12 google became sales.
So right now you probably thinking, wow, i really know how my marketing works.... not yet you don't!
Your 28 repeats spent $28K, your referrals spent $8K, Yellows spent $14K, newspaper spent $3K & google spent $7K.
Knowing those figures helps you to know how much time you spent out quoting turned into dollars.
So now you thinking, well.. i can see now which is the most profitable advertising strategy....not yet, you still don't!
Because in tree work we trade time for money, until we know how many hours we traded for that income we still don't know what was profitable.
Knowing all these metrics helps to then make decisions around where to put your time & money for the best return.
You can then match up these to the actual costs of each marketing source/lead generator to get your Aquisition Cost. You can look at this by individual lead source or in the total of them.
Then you know essentially what it "costs" you to "buy" your customers.
Mmmmm....
So just for example sake in those made up figures, Yellows is = last on # of leads, last on conversion %, but highest on Ave $. So all things being equal with accuracy of delivering that work to the estimated times then it had the highest revenue by far. But what did it cost compared to the others???
Enough...Geezzz, who's the biggest nerd now! I could go on...
You record your lead sources.
Then your conversion rate (% leads that become sales)
Then break that down further, eg. Of 100 leads 30 were repeat, 30 were referral, 10 were yellow pages, 10 were newspaper, 20 were google.
Of those, 28 of your repeats became sales, 20 referrals became sales, 3 yellow pages became sales, 6 newspaper became sales & 12 google became sales.
So right now you probably thinking, wow, i really know how my marketing works.... not yet you don't!
Your 28 repeats spent $28K, your referrals spent $8K, Yellows spent $14K, newspaper spent $3K & google spent $7K.
Knowing those figures helps you to know how much time you spent out quoting turned into dollars.
So now you thinking, well.. i can see now which is the most profitable advertising strategy....not yet, you still don't!
Because in tree work we trade time for money, until we know how many hours we traded for that income we still don't know what was profitable.
Knowing all these metrics helps to then make decisions around where to put your time & money for the best return.
You can then match up these to the actual costs of each marketing source/lead generator to get your Aquisition Cost. You can look at this by individual lead source or in the total of them.
Then you know essentially what it "costs" you to "buy" your customers.
Mmmmm....
So just for example sake in those made up figures, Yellows is = last on # of leads, last on conversion %, but highest on Ave $. So all things being equal with accuracy of delivering that work to the estimated times then it had the highest revenue by far. But what did it cost compared to the others???
Enough...Geezzz, who's the biggest nerd now! I could go on...
- Location
- Longmont, CO
I gotcha now mate! Gee, you are the biggest nerd here.
Without my own research on this, I'd say that I've read that repeat customers are the most profitable. --In many ways.
Without my own research on this, I'd say that I've read that repeat customers are the most profitable. --In many ways.
mdvaden
Participating member
- Location
- Beaverton. Oregon
[ QUOTE ]
Knowing those figures helps you to know how much time you spent out quoting turned into dollars.
[/ QUOTE ]
Its also important to keep track of how many hours are spent tracking that kind of info. Or how many hours are spent on a website.
The more hours spent, the less money made per hour, and that may be important for some folks.
Others may care more about the monthly total income than the monthly total work hours though.
But if time spent tracking also increases the monthly income, the numbers should look pretty good in the end.
It seems that nearly every business needs to monitor leads, even if occassionally, like for a 3 month period once every few years.
With the economy being weird right now, this may be one of the more important years for people to watch for trends and results.
Knowing those figures helps you to know how much time you spent out quoting turned into dollars.
[/ QUOTE ]
Its also important to keep track of how many hours are spent tracking that kind of info. Or how many hours are spent on a website.
The more hours spent, the less money made per hour, and that may be important for some folks.
Others may care more about the monthly total income than the monthly total work hours though.
But if time spent tracking also increases the monthly income, the numbers should look pretty good in the end.
It seems that nearly every business needs to monitor leads, even if occassionally, like for a 3 month period once every few years.
With the economy being weird right now, this may be one of the more important years for people to watch for trends and results.
- Location
- Melbourne, Victoria, Australia.
Ive measured this stuff continuously for about 9 years now. For the last 7 it's all computerized. It's not that hard to say "by the way, can i just ask how you found us or heard about us" at each incoming phone call. Then select that lead source against the customer in your database and the rest is virtually automatic. The right program tracks all the rest as it changes, from a quote appt, to a sale, to Ave $ etc. Matches against marketing cammpaign costs too. Hit a button anytime to run a report and get the facts. Make sound decisions.
Test & Measure is vital. EVERYONE who actually starts doing it finds reality is quite different to what they thought.
Jamin, repeat customers are GOLD! Highest conversion rate & lowest aquisition cost = great profits.
It is commonly said it costs 5 times more to sell to a new customer as it does to an existing one!
People like you who go out of their way to provide service well above the average tree guy will reap the benefits of that over time. Trust me, it pays off.
There will always be the type who thinks about todays $$$ only. They dont get the repeats you would, and get stuck in an expensive trap of high marketing costs to keep up the same level of spin.
Test & Measure is vital. EVERYONE who actually starts doing it finds reality is quite different to what they thought.
Jamin, repeat customers are GOLD! Highest conversion rate & lowest aquisition cost = great profits.
It is commonly said it costs 5 times more to sell to a new customer as it does to an existing one!
People like you who go out of their way to provide service well above the average tree guy will reap the benefits of that over time. Trust me, it pays off.
There will always be the type who thinks about todays $$$ only. They dont get the repeats you would, and get stuck in an expensive trap of high marketing costs to keep up the same level of spin.
- Location
- Bay Area, California
I have been in various yellow page books for the past 12 years. Cost has been between 480-900 per month. Then, I got smart and had a website put together....
I canned (just made my last payment) the yellow pages this year. I am now putting that money into google adwords and yahoo search marketing. My feeling with the yellow pages, especially this day in age, is people are shopping around for the cheapest price, not the best quality. I feel web sites are different: They cruise your site, and take in the feel of your company. They either like/dislike what your message is and roll onto the next.
The yellow pages are a thing of the past.
I canned (just made my last payment) the yellow pages this year. I am now putting that money into google adwords and yahoo search marketing. My feeling with the yellow pages, especially this day in age, is people are shopping around for the cheapest price, not the best quality. I feel web sites are different: They cruise your site, and take in the feel of your company. They either like/dislike what your message is and roll onto the next.
The yellow pages are a thing of the past.
mdvaden
Participating member
- Location
- Beaverton. Oregon
[ QUOTE ]
I have been in various yellow page books for the past 12 years. Cost has been between 480-900 per month. Then, I got smart and had a website put together....
I canned (just made my last payment) the yellow pages this year. I am now putting that money into google adwords and yahoo search marketing. My feeling with the yellow pages, especially this day in age, is people are shopping around for the cheapest price, not the best quality. I feel web sites are different: They cruise your site, and take in the feel of your company. They either like/dislike what your message is and roll onto the next.
The yellow pages are a thing of the past.
[/ QUOTE ]
I enjoy the individuality of websites. In Yellow Pages, one ad pretty much looks like another, except maybe with color, but those are still pretty constrained.
Walked out today, and sure enough, another Yellow page book. The Yellow Book. Picked it up and walked straight to the recycle bin.
Same as 2 weeks ago. Would swear it was the same book. Same size. I don't remember the names precisely, they are all litter that arives on our front doorstep.
I have been in various yellow page books for the past 12 years. Cost has been between 480-900 per month. Then, I got smart and had a website put together....
I canned (just made my last payment) the yellow pages this year. I am now putting that money into google adwords and yahoo search marketing. My feeling with the yellow pages, especially this day in age, is people are shopping around for the cheapest price, not the best quality. I feel web sites are different: They cruise your site, and take in the feel of your company. They either like/dislike what your message is and roll onto the next.
The yellow pages are a thing of the past.
[/ QUOTE ]
I enjoy the individuality of websites. In Yellow Pages, one ad pretty much looks like another, except maybe with color, but those are still pretty constrained.
Walked out today, and sure enough, another Yellow page book. The Yellow Book. Picked it up and walked straight to the recycle bin.
Same as 2 weeks ago. Would swear it was the same book. Same size. I don't remember the names precisely, they are all litter that arives on our front doorstep.
rfwoodvt
New member
- Location
- This side of eternity.
OK, OK, OK I'm dumping the YP display ad this year.
- Location
- Longmont, CO
There ya geaux Rick!
rfwoodvt
New member
- Location
- This side of eternity.
Well I told my rep we are looking at re-allocating our funds away from our YP display ads.
I've asked for data, he's asked for a meeting.
I think I'll ask for the data again...
I've asked for data, he's asked for a meeting.
I think I'll ask for the data again...
mdvaden
Participating member
- Location
- Beaverton. Oregon
[ QUOTE ]
Well I told my rep we are looking at re-allocating our funds away from our YP display ads.
I've asked for data, he's asked for a meeting.
I think I'll ask for the data again...
[/ QUOTE ]
Geez ... we just got another Yellow pages or yellow book on our doorstep. This make 3 versions or kinds in the past couple of months.
White bag to the trash, and book goes sailing direct to the recycle bin each times.
Some folks must be using them though. Not me. Haven't used one in about 3 years.
One approach might be to ask them about future planning. It seems inevitable that yellow pages inevitably will go by the way side. So I'd like to hear about their plan on how they plan to bridge that transition, and all advertisers no see any loss or return on their investment in the meantime.
Wouldn't it be cheaper for them to put those books on a disc? Even the encyclopedia is on disc these days. Maybe that's part of their problem, is too little promotion to put the book on disc instead of all that paper. Then they could mail the discs instead of walking books to the door on foot.
Well I told my rep we are looking at re-allocating our funds away from our YP display ads.
I've asked for data, he's asked for a meeting.
I think I'll ask for the data again...
[/ QUOTE ]
Geez ... we just got another Yellow pages or yellow book on our doorstep. This make 3 versions or kinds in the past couple of months.
White bag to the trash, and book goes sailing direct to the recycle bin each times.
Some folks must be using them though. Not me. Haven't used one in about 3 years.
One approach might be to ask them about future planning. It seems inevitable that yellow pages inevitably will go by the way side. So I'd like to hear about their plan on how they plan to bridge that transition, and all advertisers no see any loss or return on their investment in the meantime.
Wouldn't it be cheaper for them to put those books on a disc? Even the encyclopedia is on disc these days. Maybe that's part of their problem, is too little promotion to put the book on disc instead of all that paper. Then they could mail the discs instead of walking books to the door on foot.
rfwoodvt
New member
- Location
- This side of eternity.
Our main YP is really pushing the web now...trying to sell me hosting, payperclick.
Problem for them is I already have a host, a decent site, and progressively improving search engine appearances.
They really have nothing I want.
Still, I want the data, not a meeting.
Problem for them is I already have a host, a decent site, and progressively improving search engine appearances.
They really have nothing I want.
Still, I want the data, not a meeting.
Roger_Barnett
Participating member
- Location
- Seattle, in the PNWet
In my area, ALL print YP ad returns have died. Online is where it's at. Even that, though is best done elsewhere than with YBook or Dex. I use Yellowpages.com (AT&T) and am dropping my coverage down to a cheaper rate there, as the returns are lame. I've heard Superpages has the best saturation.
But I do use online lead generating services, with good results, at least for the number of qualified leads. Big problem is the competition...others get the same leads, and many of them are cut rate.....and hard sell....
In today's economy, it's hard to get people to part with their money... or to get the hourly rate that we used to get....which was about $100 per manhr....
But I do use online lead generating services, with good results, at least for the number of qualified leads. Big problem is the competition...others get the same leads, and many of them are cut rate.....and hard sell....
In today's economy, it's hard to get people to part with their money... or to get the hourly rate that we used to get....which was about $100 per manhr....
mdvaden
Participating member
- Location
- Beaverton. Oregon
Yesterday, I thought it would be a good idea if there is a "Yellow Disc".
And sure enough, when I searched online, there is a Yellow Pages on Yellow Disk.
Odds are the one our here is available that way.
And sure enough, when I searched online, there is a Yellow Pages on Yellow Disk.
Odds are the one our here is available that way.
