wrenching with a zig zag?

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I bet you could run a Petzl Shunt with a ropewrench... Holy crap, that might be the best idea ever.

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Can you release a shunt while weighted?
 
I would follow the manufactors recommendations and be done with it.Rope wrench works great with a hitch,theres no reason to use something that may get someone hurt.
 
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I bet you could run a Petzl Shunt with a ropewrench... Holy crap, that might be the best idea ever.

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Can you release a shunt while weighted?

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It ain't pretty..
 
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I would follow the manufactors recommendations and be done with it.Rope wrench works great with a hitch,theres no reason to use something that may get someone hurt.

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The manufacturer recommends that it can be used srt as long as additional friction is added
 
Key word "like". I designed the fate revolver and then the rope wrench after being frustrated with a Munter in the exact application outlined in the petzl instructions. The wrench was designed to be " like" or " such as" a Munter but better. I don't believe a Munter has any certification. does it? The rope wrench was designed exactly for this purpose. A better Munter.
 
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And descent only. not working srt.

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It gives instruction on how to ascend and descend and remain stationary SRT. I am confused by the term working because you are either descending or ascending. When you are working you are stationary and should be tied in twice.
 
I really think its a moot point considering there have already been reported problems using the wrench with the zig zag. The wrench works really great with a hitch,why risk it with a zig zag ?
 
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And descent only. not working srt.

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It gives instruction on how to ascend and descend and remain stationary SRT. I am confused by the term working because you are either descending or ascending. When you are working you are stationary and should be tied in twice.

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Kevin,

You bring up an interesting point I am going to address in my blog. http://gravitationalanarchy.wordpress.com/

I know shameless plug
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I think work can be defined and separated from ascent or descent by introducing lateral movement. Sure work can contain ascent or descent, but moving about on a horizontal plane takes it to another level.

Tony
 
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I really think its a moot point considering there have already been reported problems using the wrench with the zig zag. The wrench works really great with a hitch,why risk it with a zig zag ?

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I agree, but search for the holy grail if you must. We all stink of elderberry some days anyway
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Please remember on line we all teach whether we want to or not, whether we are right or wrong, despite our intentions, by putting it out there we invite others to follow.

Tony
 
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Key word "like". I designed the fate revolver and then the rope wrench after being frustrated with a Munter in the exact application outlined in the petzl instructions. The wrench was designed to be " like" or " such as" a Munter but better. I don't believe a Munter has any certification. does it? The rope wrench was designed exactly for this purpose. A better Munter.

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I follow where you are going with this... But it still doesnt include a RW in their statment "munter like". Yes an f8 can be like a munter, if installed below the device as the munter is. If you look at the picture that is where they have it placed. A RW can only be placed above (well I guess you could go below but not effectively). Making it not "munter like", and more like the rope wrench that it is. Until petzl says its ok to spacifically put another device ABOVE the ZZ, you are looking for trouble.
 
I'll drop it, I actually have no intention of ever using or buying a zig zag. I am only giving my opinion on the instructions by petzl and what has been reported by several wrenchers with zig zags. I have only heard of one potential issue which has also been reported by double liners. I'm not sure what the difference of putting a Munter above or below makes. Below is easier to install when your weight is on the zig zag.
 
As Tony talks about in his blog which is great by the way. There is why and why not. So far the why not is that there is potential wear in an srt system. Petzl is obviously okay with this as hanging on the zig zag srt is okay. Another why not might be that the wrench nose down on the zig zag. People say this about hitches as well and this is a potential problem that can be mediated by proper tether selection. Art says to not use a rope wrench with the spider jack but they say its fine to use as an srt ascent device. I tested it out, I could not find any why nots but I could not find any whys either. I found it to be awkward and clunky. The zig zag seems to have good answers for the whys and I have not heard a definitive why not. I think, the fact is that many people will be using the zig zag with a wrench. Petzl is not going to " approve" it because the wrench is an ISC product and they don't do that sort if thing. In my experience, above or below the hitch does not effect how much of a load the hitch or device takes. It does not effect the orientation of the load. As far as this question goes I haven't really heard a good why not. My interpretation of the instructions is that it works especially when chugging down a spar.
 
I agree Kevin. I think sometimes some sensible experimenting is necessary by the climbing community. I also wouldn't expect petzl to state their product would work combined with a competitors product, they are a big company.
I am curious to hear Eric's thoughts on this as he keeps climbing on it. I trust his observations.
 
One major difference that I can see between a munter and the wrench when used with a hitch or mechanical is that the munter can take 100% of the climbers weight, the wrench can't. The wrench is clearly designed to be used in conjunction with a hitch or something. You don't need a hitch or anything but a carabiner to descend on a munter.
 
The reason for that is that the wrench takes itself on and off the rope not that you couldn't descend down the rope with just a wrench and a brake hand. The climber takes the Munter on and off the rope. Like a wrench a Munter isn't life support, it's a friction aid without a brake hand a Munter is worthless. You fall without your brake hand you go to the ground. Note that it is not advices to use a figure eight or a Munter with out an auto lock of some sort.
 
As far as I can see, the ZZ cam to frame contact exists regardless of climbing in SRT or DdRT configurations.

When the ZZ is loaded, the bottom cam arm will ALWAYS try to orient parallel, and in the same plane with the climbing line running through the cams, and the the climbing line lines up directly above the axle of the built-in pulley. This means cam to frame contact will be made in DdRT or SRT.

Anyone climbing on one (even in DdRT alone) care to add?
 
Good question. I imagine it'll be a good long while before they make any changes to the unit, if at all....but who can really know?
 
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