Who needs spurs?

I almost always wear spurs on removals. And always (!!!) on crane jobs!
The idea to climb without spurs is that you can footlock. And footlock the tail of your climbing system. That is useful when removing really big trees, where you have to up and down a lot. On crane removals you need to position yourself as good as possible (and be prepared to take a couble of steps down, when the crane lift the piece away), so I can't find any good argument for not wearing them on a crane job!
Seems inefficient not to wear them, so the crane has to wait for you positioning yourself.

But (as I said), I sometimes find it more efficient and less exhausting to climb without spikes on really large removals.
 
Trev,

that is interesting.

I guess, I'd have to see it to believe it too.

and especially when you said, "And we do some big open canopied Eucs too, still no spurs."

I'm having a hard time visualizing how it can be so.

It seems like there would be plenty of cuts made on a bare leader that has no placement for your feet,

what does he do in this situation? use his knees and uses force against the lanyard to stay put? That is tiring and kind of unsafe. yes, i do it on trimmings, like on a silver maple restoration and I'm taking out a long sprout, but have to cut it half way at first due to an obstacle.

There has to be plenty of cuts that need to be made on tree removals around a residence and other trees, where you can't always stand in a crotch, or on a limb and many times your climbing line tie in point does not position over the place you want to be. (sorry if my wording isn't great, i'm in a hurry, just on lunch break, gotta go)

You can't always be cutting huge full length limbs and leaders, due to obstacles and other trees and such.

how does he stay in position on bare leaders?

like this:

271302-noSURRsWhy.jpg
 

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X man, your two posts in this thread are probably two of the best posts ever posted on any arb forum, nice one.
 
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it's all about the right shoes and the right tension and a knee bar is a wonderful thing. don't knock it till you try it.

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Jeff, I climb all the time without spikes on pruning jobs.
 
so should everyone else in the world. i wear spurs on removals that they are necessary in or wear they would speed production. in erasing a thick crown, sorry if this hurts your pride, but personally i don't need em. i like them when using a big saw 066 or bigger or a lot of blocking or totem pole trees or hazardous tree were you need to rely on your tip less (i only say this because i had a rope cut into a crotch three 3" on a 12" crotch in a hammered sweet gum)
 
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What is arboriculture anyway, its just a bunch of people who failed at everything else in life so they took up treework and pretended that it was a worthwhile job. We like to think that arboriculture is important, its not, its just random people cutting branches off trees, thats it, thats treework.

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I am really disappointed with this statement, Grover. Someday we'll meet over a few beers, and I hope to change your philosophy. In the meantime, keep your chin up, life is worth living, even after seeing the treeless neighborhood with the Tom Waits music.

-Tom
 
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and especially when you said, "And we do some big open canopied Eucs too, still no spurs."

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Good post, X.

Spurless removals are BS. Not just the occasional removal, but as a common practice. Especially on big stuff with cranes.

Work positioning without spurs can be done. Any good climber can do this but what a waste of resources, both physical and technical. But a climber who is not as good on spurs as he is free climbing is only using half of their potential. It is great when you can work all day in the trees on rope, in comfort. There is no reason that the same cannot be said for working on spurs. There should be no discomfort. You are using your legs as your primary means of motion. This is what our bodies are designed for. If this hurts you or fatigues you more than your rope climbing, you are doing something wrong.

Dave
 
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Spurless removals are BS. Not just the occasional removal, but as a common practice. Especially on big stuff with cranes.

Work positioning without spurs can be done. Any good climber can do this but what a waste of resources, both physical and technical. But a climber who is not as good on spurs as he is free climbing is only using half of their potential. It is great when you can work all day in the trees on rope, in comfort. There is no reason that the same cannot be said for working on spurs. There should be no discomfort. You are using your legs as your primary means of motion. This is what our bodies are designed for. If this hurts you or fatigues you more than your rope climbing, you are doing something wrong.

Dave

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I disagree. When I do a spurless or single spur removal I am still using my legs as my primary means of motion. I am using a Pantin to pull my rope and thus tend my climbing system and ascend at the same time. On trees with a huge base that is a pain in the to use your flipline and spurs to go up do you think that perhaps with a high tie in point it might be easier to use a pantin to ascend that section or even work it?


As far as discomfort I do find spurs uncomfortable after a full day in them. I use Buckingham pole spikes with the Aluminum Pads. They are adjusted properly for my leg size. They are old (late 90's) and someone who does as many removals as I do a year should probably upgrade but I would much rather buy new rope, pulleys, carabiners, and rigging gear than my least favorite piece of my climbing kit.


Blanket statements seem to be all over this web page and many other web forums. "Spurless removals are bs." "Dead elms shouldn't be climbed." "Dead elms never fail during removals." People need to consider that tree work is different all over the world. As long as people are doing things safely and enjoying their work that is what is important. Just because you can't wrap your mind around doing something a bit different doesn't mean you have to attack it. I find myself writing a lot of posts on here and then sitting and reading it and then deciding to just think about it for a while. Quite often those posts get deleted before I post them because I realize I was being reactionary or I don't know enough about the subject to post. Like dead elms for instance.


If I can efficiently and safely remove trees not using spurs in Portland then why is that bs? If it is bs because you don't do it, or you haven't seen it done, or that it wouldn't work in your area because of the tree types or species then that isn't a good enough reason for me. I'm not asking anyone else to try it or do it. I'm just saying what works for me and trying to keep minds open to a different way of doing things.
 
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As far as discomfort I do find spurs uncomfortable after a full day in them. I use Buckingham pole spikes with the Aluminum Pads. They are adjusted properly for my leg size. They are old (late 90's) and someone who does as many removals as I do a year should probably upgrade but I would much rather buy new rope, pulleys, carabiners, and rigging gear than my least favorite piece of my climbing kit.

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When I make blanket statements on tree work I try to leave the tails untucked;) But the above paragraph is exactly what I am referring to. This is a very typical response in the justification on spur-less removals.
If your rope climbing rig and technique were not up to snuff would you be satisfied? And just because you strap on spurs does not mean you stop using all your other tools. All the tricks, even a pantin can be used with spurs.
The division is strong in our industry when it comes spurs or ropes and I have yet to see an argument that did not also expose a lack in one or the other.
I am sorry that my posts sound so harsh. I don't mean to attack, but smoothing and softening requires lots of typing of which I suck at.

Dave
 
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What is arboriculture anyway, its just a bunch of people who failed at everything else in life so they took up treework and pretended that it was a worthwhile job. We like to think that arboriculture is important, its not, its just random people cutting branches off trees, thats it, thats treework.

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I am really disappointed with this statement, Grover. Someday we'll meet over a few beers, and I hope to change your philosophy. In the meantime, keep your chin up, life is worth living, even after seeing the treeless neighborhood with the Tom Waits music.

-Tom

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Today I removed a tall multi stemmed cherry tree and reduced a 50ft double stemmed Chamaecyparis lawsoniana by 60%. It rained all morning then it snowed all afternoon. I wore spurs for the cherry removal but didn't wear them for the 60% reduction on the Cypress despite the fact I was removing over 60% of the foliage and timber.

It looked like this before the reduction, I couldn't show you what it looked like after, you'd be disappointed. It was done to create a vista towards nearby hills. -

winter_246_mid.jpg
 
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Great thread.....who's winning?

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X-man followed very closely by Jeffrey Cochran who is famous the world over for his extraordinary spurless climbing (on removals).
 
today: took down one large hackberry (3.25' dbh 50' spread 50' tall) with the crane all over a nice house and a 12' x 30' landing zone, then two large hackberry stems left over from a bad top job in the 3' dbh x 30' tall and all stubbed out, plus we reduced and crown cleaned a large 5' dbh nasty storm damaged and drought dead silver maple with sun scald by fifty percent with the crane (we saved this tree's life). started at seven: no spurs all day the work was complete at 2:30pm, dumping the crane truck and 20 yards of chips, one hour of drive time, storing the tools, and doing paper work still finished by 4:15pm. the two totem poles were an extra job cause we were finished with our scheduled days work at 1:15 and they were right down the street. one climber, one ground man, one crane operator, and a 1590 brush bandit (should been the 1800a we would have finished an hour sooner)
 
today: took down a dozen or so alders, couple dozen willows, three or so hundred cherries, no spurs or climbing gear of any kind. no lies.
 
Jeffrey Cochran! We salute you!

Tomorrow I'm removing a 25ft Elderberry, I will attempt this death defying feat without spurs, maybe even take a few pics as well.
 
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