classictruckman
Participating member
- Location
- Ottawa Valley, Ontario, Canada
Yeah the D rings could make things more fun after you get home
Who needs spurs?
- Thread starter porcupine
- Start date
Tr33Climb3r
Participating member
- Location
- Wisconsin
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
What is arboriculture anyway, its just a bunch of people who failed at everything else in life so they took up treework and pretended that it was a worthwhile job. We like to think that arboriculture is important, its not, its just random people cutting branches off trees, thats it, thats treework.
[/ QUOTE ]
I am really disappointed with this statement, Grover. Someday we'll meet over a few beers, and I hope to change your philosophy. In the meantime, keep your chin up, life is worth living, even after seeing the treeless neighborhood with the Tom Waits music.
-Tom
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree with you Tom...Arboriculture is so much more
[ QUOTE ]
What is arboriculture anyway, its just a bunch of people who failed at everything else in life so they took up treework and pretended that it was a worthwhile job. We like to think that arboriculture is important, its not, its just random people cutting branches off trees, thats it, thats treework.
[/ QUOTE ]
I am really disappointed with this statement, Grover. Someday we'll meet over a few beers, and I hope to change your philosophy. In the meantime, keep your chin up, life is worth living, even after seeing the treeless neighborhood with the Tom Waits music.
-Tom
[/ QUOTE ]
I agree with you Tom...Arboriculture is so much more
Tr33Climb3r
Participating member
- Location
- Wisconsin
[ QUOTE ]
I laugh at the one spur deal.
[/ QUOTE ]
Tophopper I am with you here but when it comes down to it...it's a technique that can be very useful and productive.
Check this out...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ii005FC_JaQ
I laugh at the one spur deal.
[/ QUOTE ]
Tophopper I am with you here but when it comes down to it...it's a technique that can be very useful and productive.
Check this out...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ii005FC_JaQ
boreality
New member
- Location
- boreal forest
I'm kind of with Grover on this one. These backyard and street trees are basically pets or a sentimental reminder of the forest that was there before the development arrived. Sure they cool pavement and clean the air but we have lived without needing this. Trees can be so much more if just left alone. We've created alot of popular treatments to sustain our income more than do what's best for trees. I don't know about the failed at everything else part, I guess you could look at it that way. I'm in it by choice and spent time and money on the best education I could find. Did anyone watch that permaculture video I posted in the Tree Free Zone? I hope that's tree care for the future if it's not too late.
They really are just trees and you are just a (highly skilled)guy with a chainsaw.
I know major derail but this debate should of been over before it started just by looking at some of the positions the climber's cutting from in the video. I'd rather have my spurs rub me raw till I bleed than bleed from a chainsaw cut or have a cut rope. I've seen that guy climb in person and he's really good and gets away with it. I'm sure you guys on here are too but it's not a trend I want to see catch on. Maybe we need a better design of spurs?
They really are just trees and you are just a (highly skilled)guy with a chainsaw.
I know major derail but this debate should of been over before it started just by looking at some of the positions the climber's cutting from in the video. I'd rather have my spurs rub me raw till I bleed than bleed from a chainsaw cut or have a cut rope. I've seen that guy climb in person and he's really good and gets away with it. I'm sure you guys on here are too but it's not a trend I want to see catch on. Maybe we need a better design of spurs?
- Location
- Melbourne, Victoria, Australia.
Whoops, nearly missed coming back to this thread, sorry X.
In your pic he would probably just move a bit to the side to get more triangulation between the 2 stems so your climb line is pulling your weight onto the stem your climbing...sorry no paint pic! Maybe find a little ridge in the bark or something, he comes from a rock climbing background so a little crack or bump is plenty good.
I understand what you & others are thinking though.
As a company owner, i've blasted guys before for trying to do a removal without spurs, they were slow and often compromising cuts due to bad positioning, or taking risks with bigger pieces because they had to cut where they could stand not where they would have stood with spurs.
I worked with Matt the other week on a large as you'll find Lemon Scented Gum in a back yard spread over 3 properties with established landscape, young trees, shed, fences, deck, hottub, garden lighting, paving & corner of the house beneath.
There were 3 of us on the ground. I did nothing but run the rigging rope all day. The other 2 kept up moving & chipping brush. I were flat out without a moment to spare just lowering & returning the line to him, no time to help cut or drag, half the time one of the others even unclipped. He was in position and ready to make the next cut as quick as i could take wraps on the LD and get into position.
At no time did i think it slowed him down.
At no time were i not happy with his positioning/cutting.
At no time did i think he took something bigger/riskier than it should have been.
Ther rest of the crew that work with him daily totally agree.
After 15 years in trees I wouldn't have done it that way, it would slow me down and be a struggle, as it would for most climbers i've seen in that time.
Production of our 4 man crew is up about $1000 per day since changing ( not adding) 2 of the crew (climber & crew leader)....so it's working, and i'm not gonna tell him to put spurs on if he deems them not necessary.
Just because someone can do something at a level that is beyond us doesn't mean that it is BS, they just have a different reality.
Whoa, i'm starting to sound like daniel murphy! Hahaha
[ QUOTE ]
Trev,
that is interesting.
I guess, I'd have to see it to believe it too.
and especially when you said, "And we do some big open canopied Eucs too, still no spurs."
I'm having a hard time visualizing how it can be so.
It seems like there would be plenty of cuts made on a bare leader that has no placement for your feet,
what does he do in this situation? use his knees and uses force against the lanyard to stay put? That is tiring and kind of unsafe. yes, i do it on trimmings, like on a silver maple restoration and I'm taking out a long sprout, but have to cut it half way at first due to an obstacle.
There has to be plenty of cuts that need to be made on tree removals around a residence and other trees, where you can't always stand in a crotch, or on a limb and many times your climbing line tie in point does not position over the place you want to be. (sorry if my wording isn't great, i'm in a hurry, just on lunch break, gotta go)
You can't always be cutting huge full length limbs and leaders, due to obstacles and other trees and such.
how does he stay in position on bare leaders?
like this:
[/ QUOTE ]
In your pic he would probably just move a bit to the side to get more triangulation between the 2 stems so your climb line is pulling your weight onto the stem your climbing...sorry no paint pic! Maybe find a little ridge in the bark or something, he comes from a rock climbing background so a little crack or bump is plenty good.
I understand what you & others are thinking though.
As a company owner, i've blasted guys before for trying to do a removal without spurs, they were slow and often compromising cuts due to bad positioning, or taking risks with bigger pieces because they had to cut where they could stand not where they would have stood with spurs.
I worked with Matt the other week on a large as you'll find Lemon Scented Gum in a back yard spread over 3 properties with established landscape, young trees, shed, fences, deck, hottub, garden lighting, paving & corner of the house beneath.
There were 3 of us on the ground. I did nothing but run the rigging rope all day. The other 2 kept up moving & chipping brush. I were flat out without a moment to spare just lowering & returning the line to him, no time to help cut or drag, half the time one of the others even unclipped. He was in position and ready to make the next cut as quick as i could take wraps on the LD and get into position.
At no time did i think it slowed him down.
At no time were i not happy with his positioning/cutting.
At no time did i think he took something bigger/riskier than it should have been.
Ther rest of the crew that work with him daily totally agree.
After 15 years in trees I wouldn't have done it that way, it would slow me down and be a struggle, as it would for most climbers i've seen in that time.
Production of our 4 man crew is up about $1000 per day since changing ( not adding) 2 of the crew (climber & crew leader)....so it's working, and i'm not gonna tell him to put spurs on if he deems them not necessary.
Just because someone can do something at a level that is beyond us doesn't mean that it is BS, they just have a different reality.
Whoa, i'm starting to sound like daniel murphy! Hahaha
[ QUOTE ]
Trev,
that is interesting.
I guess, I'd have to see it to believe it too.
and especially when you said, "And we do some big open canopied Eucs too, still no spurs."
I'm having a hard time visualizing how it can be so.
It seems like there would be plenty of cuts made on a bare leader that has no placement for your feet,
what does he do in this situation? use his knees and uses force against the lanyard to stay put? That is tiring and kind of unsafe. yes, i do it on trimmings, like on a silver maple restoration and I'm taking out a long sprout, but have to cut it half way at first due to an obstacle.
There has to be plenty of cuts that need to be made on tree removals around a residence and other trees, where you can't always stand in a crotch, or on a limb and many times your climbing line tie in point does not position over the place you want to be. (sorry if my wording isn't great, i'm in a hurry, just on lunch break, gotta go)
You can't always be cutting huge full length limbs and leaders, due to obstacles and other trees and such.
how does he stay in position on bare leaders?
like this:
[/ QUOTE ]
treebing
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Detroit, Mi.
A common practice for me is to cut and chuck as much out of the tree as I can. I will Clear all the wires and roofs, make the balance of limbs more predictable, and bassically cut everything I can. This also get my chipper going quickly. For this portion of the removal I do not wear spurs and basically fly with my silky. It is all about speed, and spurs definitely slow a climber down when getting around the canopy quickly is important.
.
Then I set up the rigging and start cutting as big of chunks as I can safely fit. For that portion, I definitely want my spurs on. I want my spurs when I'm cutting big pieces of wood absolutely. Making precise cuts when your feet positioning is compromised or limited is just way harder than it needs to be. Making nice cuts is the name of the game.
.
Then I set up the rigging and start cutting as big of chunks as I can safely fit. For that portion, I definitely want my spurs on. I want my spurs when I'm cutting big pieces of wood absolutely. Making precise cuts when your feet positioning is compromised or limited is just way harder than it needs to be. Making nice cuts is the name of the game.
[ QUOTE ]
Just because someone can do something at a level that is beyond us doesn't mean that it is BS, they just have a different reality.
[/ QUOTE ]
No, it is still BS.
You are using a climbers skill to justify a procedural technique. I have seen skilled climbers put on stunning displays that were fast and efficient while using a tail-tied tautline with a four D saddle. These skilled climbers used all the same arguments that are being used here, that if they can get-it-done their way, why not? Because all these great climbers were forced into early retirement due to overuse injuries.
The tools we use now are designed to ease the stress and workload of our rope climbing, thereby improve efficiency and reduce injuries. But not to take the place of other well proven and efficient techniques. That doesn't even take into account the increased safety that a stabilized work platform that is instantly available regardless of where you are in the tree.
But it does require the same dedication and effort to learn as everything else we do. Done improperly or without the right tools, it is exhausting and painful. It does not have to be.
Dave
Just because someone can do something at a level that is beyond us doesn't mean that it is BS, they just have a different reality.
[/ QUOTE ]
No, it is still BS.
You are using a climbers skill to justify a procedural technique. I have seen skilled climbers put on stunning displays that were fast and efficient while using a tail-tied tautline with a four D saddle. These skilled climbers used all the same arguments that are being used here, that if they can get-it-done their way, why not? Because all these great climbers were forced into early retirement due to overuse injuries.
The tools we use now are designed to ease the stress and workload of our rope climbing, thereby improve efficiency and reduce injuries. But not to take the place of other well proven and efficient techniques. That doesn't even take into account the increased safety that a stabilized work platform that is instantly available regardless of where you are in the tree.
But it does require the same dedication and effort to learn as everything else we do. Done improperly or without the right tools, it is exhausting and painful. It does not have to be.
Dave
boreality
New member
- Location
- boreal forest
There's been huge improvements in artificial limb(prostetics) design. The major climbing spur makers should work with these guys to make a product you'd be a fool not to wear. Or could be an opportunity for someone, 'cause spurs are close to the same as when invented. I'm sure someone would buy $1000+ set if they were awesome. Patent them and rule the market. I've got a few ideas already to improve them. I threw the idea of building them into a boot a couple years ago but it was quickly poo pooed by the inside the box people. Wether it's having an ankle joint in the current style or whatever I'm sure there's a way to allow a guy to limbwalk as comfortably as without them. Footlocking might be pushing it.
Jeff_Cochran
New member
- Location
- Memphis TN
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Just because someone can do something at a level that is beyond us doesn't mean that it is BS, they just have a different reality.
[/ QUOTE ]
No, it is still BS.
You are using a climbers skill to justify a procedural technique. I have seen skilled climbers put on stunning displays that were fast and efficient while using a tail-tied tautline with a four D saddle. These skilled climbers used all the same arguments that are being used here, that if they can get-it-done their way, why not? Because all these great climbers were forced into early retirement due to overuse injuries.
The tools we use now are designed to ease the stress and workload of our rope climbing, thereby improve efficiency and reduce injuries. But not to take the place of other well proven and efficient techniques. That doesn't even take into account the increased safety that a stabilized work platform that is instantly available regardless of where you are in the tree.
But it does require the same dedication and effort to learn as everything else we do. Done improperly or without the right tools, it is exhausting and painful. It does not have to be.
Dave
[/ QUOTE ]
so its bs for you...
to those of us that eat a removal for lunch with no spurs its our reality. i used spurs today, a pair of geckos that i have owned for close to three years, and they felt weird and even though i can move quickly in them i immediately felt like i had to gaff into everything and they didn't fit my hiker right so they slide around. i guess i will have to through the ol' red wings in the chip truck to ride around for those once a month jobs that i will use spurs on. these trees were basically totem pole top and flops; just had to rig the tops and block the stems in that situation it is easier to just spur up the tree and get er' done. i sit on the fence when it comes to spurs. in the right application they are fantastic but they are not for every removal. sorry to burst your bubble dave but the above statement is truth.
[ QUOTE ]
Just because someone can do something at a level that is beyond us doesn't mean that it is BS, they just have a different reality.
[/ QUOTE ]
No, it is still BS.
You are using a climbers skill to justify a procedural technique. I have seen skilled climbers put on stunning displays that were fast and efficient while using a tail-tied tautline with a four D saddle. These skilled climbers used all the same arguments that are being used here, that if they can get-it-done their way, why not? Because all these great climbers were forced into early retirement due to overuse injuries.
The tools we use now are designed to ease the stress and workload of our rope climbing, thereby improve efficiency and reduce injuries. But not to take the place of other well proven and efficient techniques. That doesn't even take into account the increased safety that a stabilized work platform that is instantly available regardless of where you are in the tree.
But it does require the same dedication and effort to learn as everything else we do. Done improperly or without the right tools, it is exhausting and painful. It does not have to be.
Dave
[/ QUOTE ]
so its bs for you...
to those of us that eat a removal for lunch with no spurs its our reality. i used spurs today, a pair of geckos that i have owned for close to three years, and they felt weird and even though i can move quickly in them i immediately felt like i had to gaff into everything and they didn't fit my hiker right so they slide around. i guess i will have to through the ol' red wings in the chip truck to ride around for those once a month jobs that i will use spurs on. these trees were basically totem pole top and flops; just had to rig the tops and block the stems in that situation it is easier to just spur up the tree and get er' done. i sit on the fence when it comes to spurs. in the right application they are fantastic but they are not for every removal. sorry to burst your bubble dave but the above statement is truth.
Phil
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Oak Lawn, IL
I dont wear spikes because I'm afraid of gaffing my leg while walking up to the tree to get started. I'm just kidding, i'm completely ok with gaffing my leg. So far i've never gaffed my leg, only the cuff of my pants. It happened right after i got on the ground after a removal. I was talking to the homeowner and bit it hard. C'est la Vie
Jeff_Cochran
New member
- Location
- Memphis TN
X in removing the above limb on a canopy restoration how would you do it. personally i would take three pieces and i wouldn't put the block right there i would've used the same hight rp on the stem i was tied into and a redect into the lead behind it then a redirect in the trunk to make the tree "stand up". then i would've used a redirect block to remove the top down to the first lateral, the i would've tip tied and came down and put a shelf notch into the log and had it cranked over to the stem and then cut it off, after i would have butt tied the bottom log and dunked it into the rigging. all while saving my ground crew time and effort. thus slow is sooooo smooth and smooth is fast
Reg
Branched out member
- Location
- Victoria, BC
I'm with x and Dave on this....but dont care either way enough to upset anyone.
Ive worked with lots of 'fast' guys over the years, comp climbers actually, present company excluded of course. Fast around the tree with the saw blazing away etc....but actually the tree doesn't seem to be getting any smaller, and the chipper and groundworkers are idle for the best part. Many times I've just had to walk away and take a few deep breaths.
Being fast around a tree doesn't necessarily make for efficient tree work. Ever heard the one about the young bull and the old bull?
Ive worked with lots of 'fast' guys over the years, comp climbers actually, present company excluded of course. Fast around the tree with the saw blazing away etc....but actually the tree doesn't seem to be getting any smaller, and the chipper and groundworkers are idle for the best part. Many times I've just had to walk away and take a few deep breaths.
Being fast around a tree doesn't necessarily make for efficient tree work. Ever heard the one about the young bull and the old bull?
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
How so?
[/ QUOTE ]
You had to ask...
[/ QUOTE ]
well jeff. i do it with speed, efficiency, production and safety as my primary focus. everyone else may say the same thing but in reality they don't actually do it with speed efficiency or production. they may think they do but they don't.
this thread is a riot. little do most of you actually know of what you speak.
hey mark, thanks for the welcome! lol.
[ QUOTE ]
How so?
[/ QUOTE ]
You had to ask...
[/ QUOTE ]
well jeff. i do it with speed, efficiency, production and safety as my primary focus. everyone else may say the same thing but in reality they don't actually do it with speed efficiency or production. they may think they do but they don't.
this thread is a riot. little do most of you actually know of what you speak.
hey mark, thanks for the welcome! lol.
- Location
- Melbourne, Victoria, Australia.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Just because someone can do something at a level that is beyond us doesn't mean that it is BS, they just have a different reality.
[/ QUOTE ]
No, it is still BS.
But it does require the same dedication and effort to learn as everything else we do. Done improperly or without the right tools, it is exhausting and painful. It does not have to be.
Dave
[/ QUOTE ]
Dave, that last paragraph could also apply in reverse.
To climb & remove efficiently without spurs also takes dedication & effort to learn...Before you rule it out, have you made a dedicated effort to learn how to efficiently work a spurless removal???
Or have you done it improperly & without the right tools & found it exhausting & painful???
I would have to answer Yes to those questions for myself personally.
I have not put the time in to become proficient at it. I am quicker & safer with spurs. I'm with you on that.
But i am open minded enough to accept that there are people out there in the climbing world that have.
I never used to think so, and have see a few try that would prove your theory correct, but i have seen it with my own eyes and are convinced it can be done that way for the right person.
His level of competence makes possible a reality that is beyond my own level of reality. That does not make it BS. It is just me accepting that I am not the #1 climber in the universe and no one out there could possibly be able to do something in a tree that i can't do myself.
I know when i have watched top comp climbers like Beddes, Mark C etc I've seen them do things in a tree that are at a level that is beyond my ability. That doesn't mean that it is BS, they just have a different reality.
[ QUOTE ]
Just because someone can do something at a level that is beyond us doesn't mean that it is BS, they just have a different reality.
[/ QUOTE ]
No, it is still BS.
But it does require the same dedication and effort to learn as everything else we do. Done improperly or without the right tools, it is exhausting and painful. It does not have to be.
Dave
[/ QUOTE ]
Dave, that last paragraph could also apply in reverse.
To climb & remove efficiently without spurs also takes dedication & effort to learn...Before you rule it out, have you made a dedicated effort to learn how to efficiently work a spurless removal???
Or have you done it improperly & without the right tools & found it exhausting & painful???
I would have to answer Yes to those questions for myself personally.
I have not put the time in to become proficient at it. I am quicker & safer with spurs. I'm with you on that.
But i am open minded enough to accept that there are people out there in the climbing world that have.
I never used to think so, and have see a few try that would prove your theory correct, but i have seen it with my own eyes and are convinced it can be done that way for the right person.
His level of competence makes possible a reality that is beyond my own level of reality. That does not make it BS. It is just me accepting that I am not the #1 climber in the universe and no one out there could possibly be able to do something in a tree that i can't do myself.
I know when i have watched top comp climbers like Beddes, Mark C etc I've seen them do things in a tree that are at a level that is beyond my ability. That doesn't mean that it is BS, they just have a different reality.
- Location
- North of Boston
Doing a "hand" removal with no spikes sucks, doing a crane removal with them is a different ball game and far easier. Different strokes here guys, look what forum we are in before you start arguing, calling names, and drawing intricate diagrams to prove your point.
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
How so?
[/ QUOTE ]
You had to ask...
[/ QUOTE ]
well jeff. i do it with speed, efficiency, production and safety as my primary focus. everyone else may say the same thing but in reality they don't actually do it with speed efficiency or production. they may think they do but they don't.
this thread is a riot. little do most of you actually know of what you speak.
I know everything and you all know anything, My head is soo big that I use a pail for a hard hat. lol.
[/ QUOTE ]
Man are you for real? Do you know how completely ridiculous you are? Do you really think that you have special powers or something? Your a JOKE!! Everyone else is thinking it and I'm Saying IT! JOKE!! Where's this video you said you were going to post? Man your so good but no head cam yet? I'm still laughing...... still laughing.............laughing..harder
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
How so?
[/ QUOTE ]
You had to ask...
[/ QUOTE ]
well jeff. i do it with speed, efficiency, production and safety as my primary focus. everyone else may say the same thing but in reality they don't actually do it with speed efficiency or production. they may think they do but they don't.
this thread is a riot. little do most of you actually know of what you speak.
I know everything and you all know anything, My head is soo big that I use a pail for a hard hat. lol.
[/ QUOTE ]
Man are you for real? Do you know how completely ridiculous you are? Do you really think that you have special powers or something? Your a JOKE!! Everyone else is thinking it and I'm Saying IT! JOKE!! Where's this video you said you were going to post? Man your so good but no head cam yet? I'm still laughing...... still laughing.............laughing..harder
[ QUOTE ]
To climb & remove efficiently without spurs also takes dedication & effort to learn...Before you rule it out, have you made a dedicated effort to learn how to efficiently work a spurless removal???
[/ QUOTE ]
I can honestly say that I have, as have most other climbers that do not spur trims. As you know a spur-less trim job often involves large and a sometimes technically difficult removal of part of the canopy. It only makes sense to be able to directly proceed without a change of gear. I have also done full removals sans spurs and really have no preset agenda until I see the tree. And I am more than willing to believe that there might be one or two climbers out there more talented than I ( yes that's a joke )and as such are capable of doing things I can not.
What I have trouble with is the refusal to use spurs for reasons that as I stated are BS. Let's start with fit and comfort. How long does it take to fine tune your climbing rig/setup to the point where you can wow other climbers? Years. Perfect rope, saddle, and hitch, all adjusted to perfection, combined with day after day of repetitive movements that make those moments look effortless. Yet these same guys,usually with very little guidance will strap on spurs with whatever boots they happen to have, no fine tuning, flip-lines that don't flip, grit their teeth to endure the pain while moving through the tree with far less grace then they are accustomed to. This is not displaying the same dedication to learning spur work that they used with ropes.
How about "I'm faster without spurs" Hoo-aa! Can you also run faster and farther and jump higher on your hands. Spurs allow you to literally run in a tree if you so desire.
The combining of rope skills and spur skills should be the goal of a top climber. This will allow the proper choice of the most efficient method for the job at hand. Not one at the cost of the other.
Dave
To climb & remove efficiently without spurs also takes dedication & effort to learn...Before you rule it out, have you made a dedicated effort to learn how to efficiently work a spurless removal???
[/ QUOTE ]
I can honestly say that I have, as have most other climbers that do not spur trims. As you know a spur-less trim job often involves large and a sometimes technically difficult removal of part of the canopy. It only makes sense to be able to directly proceed without a change of gear. I have also done full removals sans spurs and really have no preset agenda until I see the tree. And I am more than willing to believe that there might be one or two climbers out there more talented than I ( yes that's a joke )and as such are capable of doing things I can not.
What I have trouble with is the refusal to use spurs for reasons that as I stated are BS. Let's start with fit and comfort. How long does it take to fine tune your climbing rig/setup to the point where you can wow other climbers? Years. Perfect rope, saddle, and hitch, all adjusted to perfection, combined with day after day of repetitive movements that make those moments look effortless. Yet these same guys,usually with very little guidance will strap on spurs with whatever boots they happen to have, no fine tuning, flip-lines that don't flip, grit their teeth to endure the pain while moving through the tree with far less grace then they are accustomed to. This is not displaying the same dedication to learning spur work that they used with ropes.
How about "I'm faster without spurs" Hoo-aa! Can you also run faster and farther and jump higher on your hands. Spurs allow you to literally run in a tree if you so desire.
The combining of rope skills and spur skills should be the goal of a top climber. This will allow the proper choice of the most efficient method for the job at hand. Not one at the cost of the other.
Dave
New threads New posts
-
test
-
What's on your mind? TCI Magazine wants to know
- Started by Tree Care Industry Assoc.
- Replies: 9
-
Apr 09 (Free CEUs) & May 07 - 'Urban Forestry Today' Webcasts @ Noon (Eastern)- Started by UFT
- Replies: 0
-
-
-
-
