Who dis

Jzack605 said:
Does that mean I got it right? The bark isn’t spot on but it’s not terribly off. The leaves are hard to get a clear shot of.
Click to expand...
Being a bigger older persimmon the bark is not going to look like most of the photos out there which are of younger trees. It has bark qualities in common with Nyssa sylvatica but Nyssa doesn't tend to have quite the "sharp edges" in its bark texture. and more so your persimmon has many more horizontal fractures in the vertical bark chunks than a tupelo would have.

Flooded river edge Nyssa sylvatica
33450269064_92c9568074_b.jpg


Fairly old Nyssa sylvatica, deep furrows, chunky bark but softer looking than older persimmon
31867999334_9320a5d962_b.jpg


-AJ
 
I’m going to have to bring my laser next visit there to get a more accurate height. The cool thing is there’s a whole grove of them.
 
There's always an argument about Nyssa sylvatica/biflora trees and wetland/upland presence. Best to be cautious and open to exceptions, imo.

My personal impression of Nyssa and persimmon leaf arrangements is that the former looks spiraled like a green dragon (Arisaema dracontium) and the latter looks like soldiers in lines on either side of the stem (e.g. crepe myrtle). The Nyssa leaves vary greatly in texture, color, and shape while the persimmon leaves I see are all the same - kind of shaped like a papaya.

My guess is that persimmon bark has vertical striations broken by more horizontal fractures (like Southern live oak bark has so many of, and which are consequently sometimes compared to the blockiness of alligator skin) than the Nyssa, which also seem to have subtler striations. An older specimen would likely have more relief in the bark, of course.

It's hard for me to tell based on these pictures, but I suspect the bark is the key. Also, when it's hard to tell, it's usually a Nyssa... Not saying that that one is, but it's worth considering seriously.

What are the consequences of being mistaken in this case?
 
  • Like
Reactions: ATH
colb said:
....

... Also, when it's hard to tell, it's usually a Nyssa... Not saying that that one is, but it's worth considering seriously.

...
Click to expand...
Just heard that same thing several weeks ago we don't have a lot of Nyssa here, but there are a few. I looked twice at a tree and said "oh...it's black gum". He said "if you don't know what it is, it is probably black gum".
 
Neill said:
New York state’s big tree register lists a 73 foot persimmon with a 70 inch circumference ( about 22 inches).

Click to expand...
I'm going to have to check on one at a client's house. It is the only one I know of with any size anywhere around. I'm sure it is at least 20" DBH. Guessing closer to 50' tall. I honestly didn't know it was that "exceptional" because there are no others to compare it to!
 
ATH said:
I'm going to have to check on one at a client's house. It is the only one I know of with any size anywhere around. I'm sure it is at least 20" DBH. Guessing closer to 50' tall. I honestly didn't know it was that "exceptional" because there are no others to compare it to!
Click to expand...
I’m down a rabbit hole looking at these big tree registers! The largest recorded persimmon in Ohio is 87’ tall with a 50” dbh!

Discover & Learn

ohiodnr.gov ohiodnr.gov
 
Last edited:
ATH said:
Just heard that same thing several weeks ago we don't have a lot of Nyssa here, but there are a few. I looked twice at a tree and said "oh...it's black gum". He said "if you don't know what it is, it is probably black gum".
Click to expand...
Young to medium sized black gum have distinctive branch/crown structure with many straight horizontals off a leader. The branches and twigs repeat that pattern in a fractal way that makes it look like an old-fashioned TV antennae attached to the chimney of a house. With the older trees those transform into massive limbs sticking out sideways from the trunk, as if they were stuck on to the tree by a giant, very little flare where the limb attaches to the tree. That and the sinuous limb structure of the older tupelos is unique compared to oaks, maples, ash, etc, very similar to the wiggly persimmon limbs in the photos from the OG post. Like all tree species, once you know it well, stands out in the forest canopy.
-AJ
 
  • Like
Reactions: ATH
Neill said:
I was surprised at that too . The register listed it at 157’ CBH and I did the math to dbh
Click to expand...
157" not 157'

157" (inches) circumference would translate to a 50" (inch) diameter. A 50-inch circumference would only be 15 inches in diameter. I don't know enough about persimmon, but would an 87' tall persimmon only be 15 inches wide?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

New threads New posts

Back
Top Bottom