When did you first hear?

L3VI said:
That seems a bit harsh. Sometimes out on the end of a branch there's no way to tie in twice.
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Yeah, I admit it was. But the few examples I know of where people fell after cutting their rope could all have been avoided by tying in twice.
 
Then there is the cutting of your climb line below your hitch without knowing it, and you fall when descending because your rope is shorter than it was when you went up. August did that, fell 40 feet and was busted up pretty good. Tie in twice when cutting, and make sure your rope will get you back to earth.
 
I use 2 ropes a lot these days. A lot more than I ever used to. 2 ropes srt with mechanicals. I'm not ideological about it or anything, but it does open up a whole lot of options that I never had before. I use 2 when it makes sense, and the more I use 2, the more I realize how often it makes sense to use 2. It's like a positive feedback loop. Being on 2 ropes and not needing to lanyard in for every, single, little, cut is really freeing.
 
Muggs said:
I use 2 ropes a lot these days. A lot more than I ever used to. 2 ropes srt with mechanicals. I'm not ideological about it or anything, but it does open up a whole lot of options that I never had before. I use 2 when it makes sense, and the more I use 2, the more I realize how often it makes sense to use 2. It's like a positive feedback loop. Being on 2 ropes and not needing to lanyard in for every, single, little, cut is really freeing.
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I often use two MRS sets at once because the tree I am cutting is going to crash down as I cut and don't want to be attached to it. Takes a lot longer to set up, but it works out well for me most of the time. A couple of weeks ago I was on three MRS sets to get where I needed to be to rescue a Forest Service drone from a hung up tree. That was a bit much to handle, but it got me where I needed to be safely. 2 lines give you a lot more stability to maintain your positioning when cutting. It probably won't catch on for most unless it is forced upon the industry however, and I understand that. I don't use two lines if I'm just taking down a somewhat solid tree that needs to be climbed in order to do so. And is it practical for the tree you are in? Are there trees close enough to tie into that are also high enough? Putting two lines in the top of a spruce tree seems to be just redundant and unnecessary to me, but two spaced lines in something like an oak tree is a winner for sure. I really hope they don't mandate two climb lines. It should be left up to the situation, not a rule.
 
Muggs said:
I use 2 ropes a lot these days. A lot more than I ever used to. 2 ropes srt with mechanicals. I'm not ideological about it or anything, but it does open up a whole lot of options that I never had before. I use 2 when it makes sense, and the more I use 2, the more I realize how often it makes sense to use 2. It's like a positive feedback loop. Being on 2 ropes and not needing to lanyard in for every, single, little, cut is really freeing.
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You just blew my mind a bit.
 
Middle ground to two full SRT rigs or two full DRT rigs is one high tip SRT and long plus short lanyard. Seems cluttered but it completely removes clutching to hold your position while you re-set up for an awkward advance or retreat. Controlled swing back/down is the nicest part aside from trying to eliminate the inch worm and the bear skid techniques. Out on a skinny branch you can set your second mini DRT line as a reduced harm when there's no proper second tie in. You're not going to win any races but it sets your mind at ease. And your biceps ;) Local stability with the short lanyard - you don't have to be a balance hero either.

Philosophy of an older guy with less reliance on athletics.
 
On the saddle history topic, related rope history was nylon coming into use in WW2 an apparently kern mantle appearing in 1953. Nylon was used for paratroopers. They happen to jump in harnesses - I wonder if anyone twigged to adapting jump harness features to other applications? Betcha they're not that far off modern harness concepts.

edit - leg loops attached to waist loop - getting there, but with shoulder harness built in. Old is new.
 
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Muggs said:
Being on 2 ropes and not needing to lanyard in for every, single, little, cut is really freeing.
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What comes to mind, though, is even though you are on two separate lines, are they not both connected to the same system on your saddle? As I’ve understood it, using a lanyard via the D rings on a saddle gives you two points of tie in for work position and life support that work independent of eachother. If you cut through your climbline, or your bridge, or the material holding your bridge, the lanyard on the D rings would still be holding you, whereas if you cut through the webbing holding both of your bridges, it would compromise both climblines.
Richard Mumford has a video talking about this.
 
Bendroctanus said:
What comes to mind, though, is even though you are on two separate lines, are they not both connected to the same system on your saddle?
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You don't have to think about it purely in terms of redundancy. I don't wear two helmets either. Using two ropes might be about having a backup of sorts, or it might just allow for more positioning options. I'm not talking about sketchy trees or questionable tie-ins. I'm talking about just taking what we normally do, tying in with rope in one section of a tree, and doing it a second time, in a different section of the same, spready tree.

I personally don't worry about cutting my bridge. Not even a little bit. I have serious issues if my saw is close enough to my bridge to cut it, regardless of how my climbing system(s) are set up.
 
Not trying to derail this great thread with 2 rope talk.

I first heard about srt here on the Buzz in 2008 I believe, first with @Tom Dunlap proselytizing about the Unicender, and then later Kevin's F8 Revolver. This is before I had even registered an account, I was a lurker. There was so little online at that time, the buzz was an oasis in the desert.

I understood the theory but I didn't bother trying it. I was too new to climbing and still learning doubled rope. SRT was cutting edge then. It wasn't until maybe 2010 that I got my ZK-1. It was great for up and down but I actually never learned to love the wrench for limb walking. I know that sounds sacrilegious or something. In 2012 I climbed srt on a 5/8" line with just a half inch hitch cord. It worked very well. That thread should still be kicking around on the servers here. Later it was the HH2 that finally did it for me, gave me the performance I was looking for. Then moved on to mechanicals. Didn't even get to try a Unicender until this year, 2023. Isn't that interesting.
 
ZK1 came out in 2011. I got mine in Dec. The next summer I really started kicking it....never looked back. I went to runners for a few years but the wrench is my thing. The Apex is the sweetest of them all. A dialed hitch will sleep a mechanical anyday for me. Two rope can be handy but I can navigate a spreading tree sweetly with one. In the rare instance I need two I always have a short rope I can use. SRT really is my gig. Even removals.....
 
The only reason I didn't start climbing SRT from the start- 2019- was fear of investing too much into something I wasn't sure about. I just bought some gear and started trying to figure it out. I actually learned how to climb MRS in a fall arrest harness :X3:. In hindsight, I wish that I would have just sucked it up and joined a crew as an entry level groundie and worked my way up, but that just seemed like it would be harder for some reason. I now tell kids not to be as stupid as I was and to seek a good teacher. I probably came closer to killing myself than I ever was aware of. That said, when I teach someone, I start teaching MRS and SRS simultaneously, as I really feel like SRS is easier to learn on if you're really gonna do it. I think k everyone who climbs should know the Munter and Tautline/Blake's hitches, just in case you find yourself with some malfunctioning gear.
 
Yes, climbing on a fat rope is good, I think partly because grip strength is so much better, friction devices are not as necessary for rope. Downside is its heavy to move around the tree. Footlocking on a single fat 5\8 rope is a pleasure.

I'm mostly mechanical, every now and again I'll throw on a simple wrench. Homemade wrenches can be good options. Cmi micro pulleys can be made into great wrenches with very little work.

I like hitches on my lanyard but not much on climb line. I have a Singing Tree wrench (Notch) with a modified (homeade) tether as my backup system. My whole crew is set up with a hitch climber system, notch wrenches (80$) and runners, one prefers the OG substantially more than the RRP.

The runners get used the most but the wrenches come out fairly often, especially when going back and forth from srt to mrs. Hitchclimber system to SRT is one place where a wrench really shines. None of the mechanical SRT systems besides the UNI does MRS very well. I love the Hitch hiker system but it also lacks on MRS.

If I could have afforded a Uni in 2008, the wrench or the runner would have never happened for sure. I actually never tried one until after the wrench and I was working on the runner. I was blown away and nearly quit working on the runner. The uni is amazing. The akimbo is also a hell of a tool. The Taz love is great. The only thing I can fault about the zig zag is not being midline attachable kills it for me. But it goes between MRS and SRS flawlessly. But I can't climb without a midline attacheability to some level.

In the end, climbing SRS is really simple. These Sticht hitches of Brockys are awesome too. Lots of ways to create friction on a rope. So much room for creativity.
 
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