What is a sucker?
- Thread starter Babberney
- Start date
- Location
- Retired in Minneapolis
FT,
Did you have the opportunity to go back after hurricanes to see if the 'proofed' trees survived in any better shape than there unsheared cohorts? Even an anecdotal observation would have some value.
From my observations pruning for weight or volume has little to do with storm survivability. Structural pruning, including tip-leghtening, seems to have some benefits...but not gutting trees by any means.
Did you have the opportunity to go back after hurricanes to see if the 'proofed' trees survived in any better shape than there unsheared cohorts? Even an anecdotal observation would have some value.
From my observations pruning for weight or volume has little to do with storm survivability. Structural pruning, including tip-leghtening, seems to have some benefits...but not gutting trees by any means.
- Location
- Deep, deep south Texas
[ QUOTE ]
we remove about 2/3 of them as well, from what i understand is that in blazing heat the interior sucker growth helps transport more water and helps the trees breath better because the heat causes the upper canopies leaves to close their pores. but that is quite a nice tree mb
[/ QUOTE ]
Leaving suckers increases the leaf surface of a tree and in very hot climates this can lead to excessive transpiration, stressing the tree. Suckers also have a very weak connection to the branch.
we remove about 2/3 of them as well, from what i understand is that in blazing heat the interior sucker growth helps transport more water and helps the trees breath better because the heat causes the upper canopies leaves to close their pores. but that is quite a nice tree mb
[/ QUOTE ]
Leaving suckers increases the leaf surface of a tree and in very hot climates this can lead to excessive transpiration, stressing the tree. Suckers also have a very weak connection to the branch.
- Location
- Phoenix Arizona
"Leaving suckers increases the leaf surface of a tree and in very hot climates this can lead to excessive transpiration, stressing the tree. Suckers also have a very weak connection to the branch."
I never heard this...is this true, about the excesive transpiration I mean?
Would be a good argument to go hog wild on the interior.
Especialy here in Arizona or Texas.
I never heard this...is this true, about the excesive transpiration I mean?
Would be a good argument to go hog wild on the interior.
Especialy here in Arizona or Texas.
- Location
- Retired in Minneapolis
From my understading of tree physiology the tree will regulate transpiration by closing as many stomatas on the leaves as required. If there isn't enough water to take up the tree will shut down. More or less leaves has little to do with the whole formula as I understand physiology.
My model of a tree is that the leaves are the food factories which support the wood. If there are less leaves, or leaves in the wrong place on the tree, the wood will die or be stressed.
Leaving a nice volume of leaves in the interior makes so much sense to me on many levels. Trees don't grow 'extra' leaves. It is a big misconception that just because the trees don't die when they're gutted means that it's OK to gut them continually. This logic doesn't hold up when challenged.
Gutting trees can leave them looking spectacular...to some people's eyes. To my eye the most spectacular deciduous trees that I have ever seen are Live Oaks. The ones in the wild have very few interior sprouts and the ones that are growing inside the canopy verneeer certainly don't detract from the beauty. Seeing so many gutted Live Oaks in the city shows that they are tough and can tolerate continued abuse. That certainly doesn't justify the abuse.
Back to what Kieth said at the beginning...
My model of a tree is that the leaves are the food factories which support the wood. If there are less leaves, or leaves in the wrong place on the tree, the wood will die or be stressed.
Leaving a nice volume of leaves in the interior makes so much sense to me on many levels. Trees don't grow 'extra' leaves. It is a big misconception that just because the trees don't die when they're gutted means that it's OK to gut them continually. This logic doesn't hold up when challenged.
Gutting trees can leave them looking spectacular...to some people's eyes. To my eye the most spectacular deciduous trees that I have ever seen are Live Oaks. The ones in the wild have very few interior sprouts and the ones that are growing inside the canopy verneeer certainly don't detract from the beauty. Seeing so many gutted Live Oaks in the city shows that they are tough and can tolerate continued abuse. That certainly doesn't justify the abuse.
Back to what Kieth said at the beginning...
- Location
- Grand Marais, MN
"..tough and tolerant of continued abuse" is no longer the reality.
- Location
- Haddonfield, nj
hey tom, no, i was lucky enough to not have been there after a hurrican, honestly the guy i worked for was a hack, hurricane proofing was probably just something he dreamt up one day to make a buck, but it did kind of make sense, giving the wind an easy way out of the canopy that is, there has to be something behind the madness over there, honestly though, how do you "hurricane proof" a pine tree, the answer to me is to remove it if its near your house but who knows.
guymayor
Branched out member
- Location
- East US, Earth
"Leaving suckers increases the leaf surface of a tree and in very hot climates this can lead to excessive transpiration, stressing the tree."
I'm not sure of this for reasons Tom described, plus the concept of stressing a tree by leaving interior growth is difficult on its own. As I read Shigo and medical writing, stress is not a bad thing but strain is. Trees do not strain themselves by growing, I don't think.
"Suckers also have a very weak connection to the branch." True, because they are sheltered they do not need a strong connection until they develop. Suckers can form buttresses and become strong branches in time.
I hurricane-proof pines somewhat by light thinning of dense areas and reduction of sprawling branches, but the most effective way is to grow a good root system.
I'm not sure of this for reasons Tom described, plus the concept of stressing a tree by leaving interior growth is difficult on its own. As I read Shigo and medical writing, stress is not a bad thing but strain is. Trees do not strain themselves by growing, I don't think.
"Suckers also have a very weak connection to the branch." True, because they are sheltered they do not need a strong connection until they develop. Suckers can form buttresses and become strong branches in time.
I hurricane-proof pines somewhat by light thinning of dense areas and reduction of sprawling branches, but the most effective way is to grow a good root system.
- Location
- Boulder County, CO.
- Location
- Boulder County, CO.
- Location
- Boulder County, CO.
- Location
- Boulder County, CO.
- Location
- Retired in Minneapolis
Fred,
You and your crew are ar-bo-tists!
You and your crew are ar-bo-tists!
- Location
- Phoenix Arizona
what are the ladders for?
- Location
- Phoenix Arizona
oh...you need the ladders because you cut out the central leads and they are too difficult to get around in!!! DOH
I hate topping and suckers who sell topping as an appropriate practice. Topping ,pollarding ,crown reduction.... No matter what name you give it the results are always ugly.
Was that a mulberry?
Its hard to walk away from $ sometimes but Id just assume go hungry than let my freinds see me doing that kind of work for some knuckleheaded client who is dead set on ruining their trees.
And thats all I have to say about that.
I hate topping and suckers who sell topping as an appropriate practice. Topping ,pollarding ,crown reduction.... No matter what name you give it the results are always ugly.
Was that a mulberry?
Its hard to walk away from $ sometimes but Id just assume go hungry than let my freinds see me doing that kind of work for some knuckleheaded client who is dead set on ruining their trees.
And thats all I have to say about that.
guymayor
Branched out member
- Location
- East US, Earth
[ QUOTE ]
I hate topping and suckers who sell topping as an appropriate practice. Topping ,pollarding ,crown reduction.... No matter what name you give it the results are always ugly...Id just assume go hungry than let my freinds see me doing that kind of work for some knuckleheaded client who is dead set on ruining their trees.
[/ QUOTE ]
There is more than one way to trim a tree. What would you do with that one if the view was a must, basal prune and replace with a bush, or turf? That's a Homer Simpson approach for sure.
If you can't work a tree without a central lead to tie into, you cannot work the tree. Why limit yourself?
That tree is beautiful. It shows an intelligent compromise between the trees' needs and the people's. If we seek to impose our view of aesthetics, we go way outside our roles. Ugly is in the narrow eye of the be-scolder.
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I think Keith started this thread with tongue in cheek, but it is not about suckers (which arise from the roots), but watersprouts (which arise above the roots). Arguments would be much shorter if we spoke the same language.
I hate topping and suckers who sell topping as an appropriate practice. Topping ,pollarding ,crown reduction.... No matter what name you give it the results are always ugly...Id just assume go hungry than let my freinds see me doing that kind of work for some knuckleheaded client who is dead set on ruining their trees.
[/ QUOTE ]
There is more than one way to trim a tree. What would you do with that one if the view was a must, basal prune and replace with a bush, or turf? That's a Homer Simpson approach for sure.
If you can't work a tree without a central lead to tie into, you cannot work the tree. Why limit yourself?
That tree is beautiful. It shows an intelligent compromise between the trees' needs and the people's. If we seek to impose our view of aesthetics, we go way outside our roles. Ugly is in the narrow eye of the be-scolder.
*********
I think Keith started this thread with tongue in cheek, but it is not about suckers (which arise from the roots), but watersprouts (which arise above the roots). Arguments would be much shorter if we spoke the same language.
- Location
- Phoenix Arizona
Indeed....and I apologize for my narrow minded post.
My carma meter is getting lower everyday.
My carma meter is getting lower everyday.
- Location
- Phoenix Arizona
thanx master
i aint much fur book learnin
i aint much fur book learnin
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