Tying the VT

R

Ron

Location
Chattanooga
In Jeff Jepson's book, "The Tree Climber's Companion", he describes in detail how to tie the VT. After tying one or two using that method, it occurred to me that it would be exactly the same thing if you just make six (or so) wraps around the climbing line and terminate the ends. Well, you do have to orient the ends, but that's easy.

The wraps are much easier and faster to tie than the wrap/braid method and when you pull on it, again orienting the ends correctly, you get the wraps and braids any way.

I realize that some alternate which end goes over and under; Jepson says there's little difference if any in performance.

Am I missing something here?
 
I wondered the same. In rock climbing-ese, a friction hitch like you describe is called an "autoblock". This is used as a rappel back-up. It is attached below the rappel device (figure 8, ATC/ Tuber) This is used in a SRT type set-up where the autoblock exerts enough friction on the rope to pull the rappel device to a lock-off position and hold the rappeller. This is like the tree DdRT where the VT holds about half the bodyweight.

I wasn't sure if this described technique was just some other way of tying the VT or if the under/over was intrinsically part of the VT.

I find it much easier to just wrap the appropriate amount of times and adjust the way it lays, rather than the traditional way.

I've also read on Sherrill's website that it is only to be used for rigging, such as a progress capture on a 3:1 MA pulley system because it is finicky, whereas other sources use it as a climbing hitch.


Other input???
 
[ QUOTE ]
...In rock climbing-ese, a friction hitch like you describe is called an "autoblock". This is used as a rappel back-up. It is attached below the rappel device (figure 8, ATC/ Tuber) This is used in a SRT type set-up where the autoblock exerts enough friction on the rope to pull the rappel device to a lock-off position and hold the rappeller. This is like the tree DdRT where the VT holds about half the bodyweight.

[/ QUOTE ] Yep, the VT as I described it and actually as described in JJ's book appears to me to be the same as an autoblock.

[ QUOTE ]
...I wasn't sure if this described technique was just some other way of tying the VT or if the under/over was intrinsically part of the VT.

[/ QUOTE ]
There are some variations of the VT.

[ QUOTE ]
...I find it much easier to just wrap the appropriate amount of times and adjust the way it lays, rather than the traditional way.

[/ QUOTE ]
Me too, and faster to both tie and untie.
 
I've found different performance between braids (VT) and straight wraps (French Prusik) mostly in terms of the hitch's ability to set in weight transfers. With straight wraps no braids, your hitch could potentially flip orientation with enough weight in your rope eliminating the self tending properties of a VT (braids). I've also found that a VT (braids) interfaces better with a micropulley, as both exiting eyes are fixed at the bottom of the hitch.

A properly tweaked VT should set very quickly under weight transfer, but easily be broken for rapid slack tending with very little friction. I haven't had the same fine tuning capabilities with a French Prusik (sans braids), meaning sacrificing a consistent hands-free set for a reduced friction slack tend, or vice versa.
 
After many tries with different cords and tying configuration I gave up on the VT. Too many occasions with the hitch not auto setting. The Knut has been my hitch for some time now!!!
 
I was using the traditional VT on 1/2 line, but when I switched to Tachyon, the 4 over 3 became too much, at least with HRC and Icetail hitches. I am now using 3 wraps over 3 alternating braids, which is working well so far. I have heard differing claims that this may or may not be unsafe. So far it has worked fine, save for the occasional time when advancing with the Pantin has 'undressed' the knot.

-Tom
 
I hear ya Mahk, but I just did the wrap only numerous times yesterday in repeated climbs and every time I loaded it, I got braids at the bottom. I could not prevent them.
 
[ QUOTE ]
After many tries with different cords and tying configuration I gave up on the VT. Too many occasions with the hitch not auto setting. The Knut has been my hitch for some time now!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you need a pulley to mind it?
The article Mark Adams wrote says its self tending.
 
[ QUOTE ]
I hear ya Mahk, but I just did the wrap only numerous times yesterday in repeated climbs and every time I loaded it, I got braids at the bottom. I could not prevent them.

[/ QUOTE ]


They are not braids, they are just wraps that have cascaded over each other. Wraps are bi-directional (and will cascade over each other in either direction), braids are not. The article (did you read it?) explains it in more detail, with photos.
 
[ QUOTE ]
After many tries with different cords and tying configuration I gave up on the VT. Too many occasions with the hitch not auto setting. The Knut has been my hitch for some time now!!!

[/ QUOTE ]

Yep, the VT doesn't necessarily set by itself. I've gotten used to it because I like the better performance otherwise. I don't think I'll trust any knot to 'autoset' anymore. It's just instinct now to set it by hand whenever I move.

I really do have to try the Knut and the Mich... but I never do. Fear of change I suppose.
 
[ QUOTE ]
They are not braids, they are just wraps that have cascaded over each other. Wraps are bi-directional (and will cascade over each other in either direction), braids are not. The article (did you read it?) explains it in more detail, with photos.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ahhh, I see the difference this time. I don't remember reading the description re how the VT is tied, I missed that somehow. Anyway, it's clear now. Many thanks!
 
[ QUOTE ]

The article Mark Adams wrote says its self tending.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think by self-tending he means that the rope drops through the VT hitch nicely when you're pulling rope above the hitch, assuming you have enough rope tail/weight below you. VT is probably the best hitch for doing this because it collapses so easily when it's unloaded, the trade-off is that it needs a little help setting (flick of the hand upward against the hitch). The Knut is the closest to not needing a pulley when you're coming back from a limb walk and need to pull the tail of the rope away from you to move rope through the hitch. VT definitely won't self tend in that scenario, at least not for me. It's so easy to put a micropulley into the system, I find it best to have one there no matter what hitch I'm using with an eye-to-eye split tail, it makes everything so smooth when you want to pull the tail away from you to take up slack.

XT Hitch is my favorite, has the best qualities of the VT but sets much more reliably. I think I learned the XT from one of Mahk's posts a while ago. Never looked back, great hitch.
-moss
 
[ QUOTE ]
...So far it has worked fine, save for the occasional time when advancing with the Pantin has 'undressed' the knot.

-Tom

[/ QUOTE ]

Check out the XT, it won't undress like a VT but is as simple/quick to tie and otherwise performs as well as the VT.

Ok, I'm done promoting the XT. Everyone loves their favorite hitch, I'm no different.
-moss
 
[ QUOTE ]
Can someone post a picture of the XT? I can't find one...I found some references to it, but no photo.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a 5 wrap XT w/8mm Beeline on Tachyon....

I currently use a 4 wrap with the same cordage:

2398650661_4af62e11f9.jpg


2398650893_d767712cf9.jpg


I tie the 4 wrap XT in this video:
The video is 9 minutes, I tie the hitch at minute 2:00
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVMjl2YQzpk

-moss
 
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