Trying to maintain good health

tomstrees

tomstrees

Participating member
This has been a big focus of mine. My mother was heavily focused on health and natural healing, older sisters worked in publishing in NY; one worked at Rodale and we got some great inspirational books on natural alternative living.

My health regime is relatively routine on intakes. I drink a lot of organic teas, green sencha tea and milk or organic Mexican altura style coffee. I juice organic carrots and apples every morning, one to two pounds of carrots, sometimes add beets or other veggies. I get organic ginger root, and either juice some up or grind it and add to tea. I'm 6' 6" and 260#, frankly need to lose soe weight. I like beef, beer, dairy of quality. I try to hike 20 or more miles a week. I spend too much time online on serious blog sites, etc..

Tree spraying was never for me as I have a senstive system. I did some work with a service or so drenching trees, I never wanted or needed to do that. I went back to the local arboretum and one of the guys in charge has to have his "titers" checked periodically due to all the toxic spraying he did. The arborist course is heavily focused on toxic sprays.

I thought I'd start this thread to maybe get others sharing how they maintain their health.
 
Earlier this year, I did a 60 day "primal diet" consisting only of eating meat, vegetables and tubers, and fruit. No dairy, grains, sugar or processed foods. I tracked macros and calories and focused on walking a lot, minimum of 10k steps a day and lost nearly 20lbs. I've stuck with the diet for the most part and just feel so much better than I used to. I look better, much leaner, and have better energy levels.
 
Dr. Gundry talks about lectins and high sugar fruits as well as gummy gooey foods as problems if for good health and losing weight. The "sugars" in carrots and apples don't bother me if I'm getting the nutrients and the apples are old style lower sugar ones such as Empires, Courtlands, etc.. A lot of the hybrids were bred to appeal to the sweet tooth.
 
Please run as fast as you can away from Dr. Gundry. That guy's a total quack. Maybe people take his words waaaay out of context and I am way off base with my assertions, but I wouldn't trust a guy that says smoking tobacco is good for you and that kids might as well eat a hershey bar if the alternative is a cup of grapes.

I could recommend a lot of better people to listen to, but I think if you are taking Gundry seriously, you may want to first go back to the basics and learn about critical thinking and analysis, scientific research methodology in general. Learn how to tell the difference between sources worth taking seriously and those that are not. Spend most of your time reading primary sources. and don't trust some blogger to understand things for you. You can read a lot studies in full on PubMed.
 
Keep an eye on the balance between a rounded, varied diet and something that ranges towards an Atkins/ketosis (protein not carbs) approach. Ketosis works but I've heard it can strain your body. Tossing out the carb cycle does feel more energetic.
 
Matias said:
Please run as fast as you can away from Dr. Gundry. That guy's a total quack. Maybe people take his words waaaay out of context and I am way off base with my assertions, but I wouldn't trust a guy that says smoking tobacco is good for you and that kids might as well eat a hershey bar if the alternative is a cup of grapes.

I could recommend a lot of better people to listen to, but I think if you are taking Gundry seriously, you may want to first go back to the basics and learn about critical thinking and analysis, scientific research methodology in general. Learn how to tell the difference between sources worth taking seriously and those that are not. Spend most of your time reading primary sources. and don't trust some blogger to understand things for you. You can read a lot studies in full on PubMed.
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I'd agree that he's questionable though he's everywhere these days. Some things he says makes sense others are absurd. Number one, you can't eat yourself to weight loss. You have to cut back on feeding the fat cells and increase metabolism. A lot of people recommend coconut oil from a quality source. But that's not going to solve excess intake. Ultimately it's about discipline. Anything is better than taking drugs to lose weight or getting surgery.
 
I’m pretty sure Kevin from Game of Trees has been big on the keto or primal diet for a few years now too.
 
I think there's strong evidence to suggest that a significant amount of carbohydrate intake is ideal for recovering after heavy physical work, to restore the glycogen into your muscles which is the primary energy source for the muscle fibers during intense bouts of physical exertion, as well as creatine, which basically everyone who does heavy physical work would likely benefit from. Protien is king, and getting enough takes me a good bit of effort, but my ability to climb five days a week improved dramatically when I actually started eating at least .7g/lb of body weight. After all that, you really only have the calorie budget for enough good fats, i.e. omega-3 rich sources- almost all the good fats still come with a little saturated fat- to keep your brain, joints, and a few other things happy.

After many years of avoiding resistance training, I gotta say that doing basic compound lifts- classics like squat, deadlift, bench press, etc.- has made it feel way easier to climb hard.

YMMV
 
Matias said:
I think there's strong evidence to suggest that a significant amount of carbohydrate intake is ideal for recovering after heavy physical work, to restore the glycogen into your muscles which is the primary energy source for the muscle fibers during intense bouts of physical exertion, as well as creatine, which basically everyone who does heavy physical work would likely benefit from. Protien is king, and getting enough takes me a good bit of effort, but my ability to climb five days a week improved dramatically when I actually started eating at least .7g/lb of body weight. After all that, you really only have the calorie budget for enough good fats, i.e. omega-3 rich sources- almost all the good fats still come with a little saturated fat- to keep your brain, joints, and a few other things happy.

After many years of avoiding resistance training, I gotta say that doing basic compound lifts- classics like squat, deadlift, bench press, etc.- has made it feel way easier to climb hard.

YMMV
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I agree, the various fad diets, limiting carbs., limiting healthy whole foods just does not make sense. I'm type O blood which supposedly does well on a carnivore and higher protein diet, but you can overdo that. Food combining makes a lot of sense. Ultimately if you are working hard you can eat more but the risk is overeating because a lot of good food is affordable for most.
 
I'm O-positive too. Aside from perhaps some rare genetic outlier, humans are not strictly carnivores. If one does intend to eat a lot of meat, one would be wise to at a minimum also make sure to get enough fiber, which you do not get from meat at all, and which is essential for proper gut functioning. I would also make sure that you either take vitamin supplements or make sure you eat enough of the various organs to get them. I would also stick to birds and wild game, and stay away from too much domesticated cow or pig, as they are waaaaay fattier than anything our early anscestors knew, and too much fat will make you fat. I don't hear anyone debating whether getting really fat is a good idea or not.

Really, the more you think about it, the more you realize that trying to mimic the exact day to day diet of any of our ancestors makes no sense at all. They didn't have the option to make better choices, so they ate what was available, which was different for different people in different places, but they were omnivores.

I use a lot of whey and casien powders to supplement my protien intake, and I make sure to get at least 30g of fiber a day, usually more. I have mixed-symptom IBS, so the effect of the fiber is really easy to see. Eggs are awesome, but watch the yolks. I started buying the boxes of egg whites and mixing one or two whole egs in with mostly egg whites now.
Ultimately, I think the best advice can be boiled down to just a few simple words:
Just eat food. Not too much. Mostly plants.

You can be slim and still have a lot of visceral fat on your organs, so don't assume that because you don't look fat that you don't have a problem eating a lot of fat. I made that mistake for a long time and discovered recently that I have a startling amount of visceral fat, that I am now working to get rid of, and I feel a lot better + my IBS is starting to calm down a little.
 
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Matias said:
Please run as fast as you can away from Dr. Gundry. That guy's a total quack. Maybe people take his words waaaay out of context and I am way off base with my assertions, but I wouldn't trust a guy that says smoking tobacco is good for you and that kids might as well eat a hershey bar if the alternative is a cup of grapes.

I could recommend a lot of better people to listen to, but I think if you are taking Gundry seriously, you may want to first go back to the basics and learn about critical thinking and analysis, scientific research methodology in general. Learn how to tell the difference between sources worth taking seriously and those that are not. Spend most of your time reading primary sources. and don't trust some blogger to understand things for you. You can read a lot studies in full on PubMed.
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Yea anybody who's squawking at me during a YouTube ad, replete with AI slop is automatically suspect. That guy is a quack.
 
Analog said:
Earlier this year, I did a 60 day "primal diet" consisting only of eating meat, vegetables and tubers, and fruit. No dairy, grains, sugar or processed foods. I tracked macros and calories and focused on walking a lot, minimum of 10k steps a day and lost nearly 20lbs. I've stuck with the diet for the most part and just feel so much better than I used to. I look better, much leaner, and have better energy levels.
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I should also add that i drink a lot of water. Like, A LOT. It's pretty much all I drink, aside from a cup or two of plain black coffee every day and coconut water a couple of times a week. This summer I've been doing a lot of contrast therapy at a local joint, sauna then cold plunge. It has worked wonders for my ability to regulate my nervous system and it has really improved my sleep. The diet I mentioned really lessened inflammation in my joints.
 
I don't believe health is that difficult to maintain if you are basically healthy without bad habits. The days are probably long gone where tree climbers could have addictions such as alcoholism while doing the work. As Harold Self who I worked for in masonry told me, he'd look for a climber in a local bar when he needed one, "not tightly wrapped" he'd say of them. Well that's what happens when you don't pay them what they're worth. Drinking and tree climbing or for that matter physically strenuous work are not compatible as anyone who has tried it has found out especially on hot days. Working for one company head, the guy got wine coolers to relax after some heavy physical work and started acting like he was going into a stroke. Fortunately his body recovered from blanking out. Another time I had a climber who was a known drunk who worked with another one resulting in a minor accident requiring stiches. I thought I'd give "John" a break and some work to help him out which was a mistake. Another climber who was a pot fiend frankly could not be trusted in the work so I didn't hire him again and he caused a lot of problems over the years in the business. I don't doubt that Cannabis has its place for real medical needs, not so much recreationally as a serious addiction. Hard physical work requires a body not recovering from drugs and alcohol. The bright sun and heat has a way of taking a toll on those who are not in top shape. This is highly athletic work and there is no option to not maintain good health.

For cramps after a day of heavy lifting I've used "Tiger Balm" especially so I don't get cramps at night. In the evening after heavy work the body needs some rest not a full meal as many of us have had then trouble sleeping. Something like yoghurt with walnuts, or a lighter protein meal easily digested is the way to go. I've even known climbers in top shape who are vegetarians swearing by baked beans for protein. People have to find what is compatible with their own health.
 
tomstrees said:
I don't believe health is that difficult to maintain if you are basically healthy without bad habits...

... People have to find what is compatible with their own health.
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Sounds like you have it all figured out. Were you trying to gain something here? You seem to be conflating level of technical difficulty with level of effort required, which I see as two opposite ends of a spectrum. Things that are more technically challenging tend to be things that are less about physical exertion to accomplish work, but require a lot of mental exertion. Things that are extremely physically taxing tend to require much less brain power. I can't think of anything that is purely at one end or the other of this spectrum, but the point I am trying to make is that maintaining health is both, and ignoring one half of the equation will often lead you to results that don't align with your expectations/hopes/goals. If you have phenominal will power and can always avoid cravings and can eat only what you need to be healthy and always at the optimum times, but you don't know any of the technical stuff and avoid anything but meat like the plague, there is a high statistical likelihood that your health with be farther and farther from ideal the longer you commit to that plan. You might get an initial boost in health from cutting out something that was harming you, but you will begin to suffer the consequences.

Conversely, if you know all the science but lack the willpower to eat the healthy things that you should be eating, then getting healthy will be equally difficult.

As with most things, balance is key, and underatanding what balance feels like and looks like in your body is definitely part of your journey. You may be healthy enough for now, and if you are content with that then great.

I am trying to be climbing hard until I am 90, so optimizing to the best of my abilities will be a lifelong pursuit.


If you take nothing else away from this conversation, just stop listening to mr. Gundry, or at least learn how to fact check his nonsense so that you can maybe extract something useful from his noise.
 
Matias said:
Sounds like you have it all figured out. Were you trying to gain something here? You seem to be conflating level of technical difficulty with level of effort required, which I see as two opposite ends of a spectrum. Things that are more technically challenging tend to be things that are less about physical exertion to accomplish work, but require a lot of mental exertion. Things that are extremely physically taxing tend to require much less brain power. I can't think of anything that is purely at one end or the other of this spectrum, but the point I am trying to make is that maintaining health is both, and ignoring one half of the equation will often lead you to results that don't align with your expectations/hopes/goals. If you have phenominal will power and can always avoid cravings and can eat only what you need to be healthy and always at the optimum times, but you don't know any of the technical stuff and avoid anything but meat like the plague, there is a high statistical likelihood that your health with be farther and farther from ideal the longer you commit to that plan. You might get an initial boost in health from cutting out something that was harming you, but you will begin to suffer the consequences.

Conversely, if you know all the science but lack the willpower to eat the healthy things that you should be eating, then getting healthy will be equally difficult.

As with most things, balance is key, and underatanding what balance feels like and looks like in your body is definitely part of your journey. You may be healthy enough for now, and if you are content with that then great.

I am trying to be climbing hard until I am 90, so optimizing to the best of my abilities will be a lifelong pursuit.


If you take nothing else away from this conversation, just stop listening to mr. Gundry, or at least learn how to fact check his nonsense so that you can maybe extract something useful from his noise.
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People have asked me if I've done tree climbing; that's a level of coordination and complexity that is out of my level of competence; with the ropes, etc.. My brother once climbed when he was in his 20s. You have to know what your strengths are. I could always do the ground work. Also I never believed in the tree spraying which is a big part of the trade, and carries significant liabilities for those exposed to those chemicals.

As for Gundry, that's more like "entertainment". He doesn't like sweet fruits, which makes sense or oats or dairy claiming they are designed for big animals. In the health movements I've known vegetarians who decry "eating the flesh of dead animals". Yet most people do ok with animal products. The issue is quality levels and food combining. The atrazine sprayed on fields with all the other toxins creates health problems. For me eating and drinking healthy things is not a matter of "willpower". I've never smoked or drunk hard liquor or gotten involved with wild women. I could drink organic green and mate teas all day long with other culinary herbs. I haven't found vegetable foods objectionable, I like all vegetables and fruits but realize many fruits give you little nutritionally.
 
tomstrees said:
People have asked me if I've done tree climbing; that's a level of coordination and complexity that is out of my level of competence; with the ropes, etc.. My brother once climbed when he was in his 20s. You have to know what your strengths are. I could always do the ground work. Also I never believed in the tree spraying which is a big part of the trade, and carries significant liabilities for those exposed to those chemicals.

As for Gundry, that's more like "entertainment". He doesn't like sweet fruits, which makes sense or oats or dairy claiming they are designed for big animals. In the health movements I've known vegetarians who decry "eating the flesh of dead animals". Yet most people do ok with animal products. The issue is quality levels and food combining. The atrazine sprayed on fields with all the other toxins creates health problems. For me eating and drinking healthy things is not a matter of "willpower". I've never smoked or drunk hard liquor or gotten involved with wild women. I could drink organic green and mate teas all day long with other culinary herbs. I haven't found vegetable foods objectionable, I like all vegetables and fruits but realize many fruits give you little nutritionally.
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Very cool, but literally everything you paraphrased from Gundry is ABSOLUTELY UNFOUNDED NONSENSE. Sweet fruits are amazing for your health, if part of an otherwise balanced plan. Oats and dairy are amazing for your health, if part of an otherwise balanced plan. You can be healthy and eat no real food at all, and live on protien powders and pills. Studies have been done on that actually, and we are basically walking garbage disposals. Our bodies are great at making do with bullshit, as long as that bullshit has meets certain requirements.
If you want, I can give you way more edutainment recomendations that will keep you off of gundry, just tell me how many you want so I don't spend three days typing the complete list.
 
Matias said:
Very cool, but literally everything you paraphrased from Gundry is ABSOLUTELY UNFOUNDED NONSENSE. Sweet fruits are amazing for your health, if part of an otherwise balanced plan. Oats and dairy are amazing for your health, if part of an otherwise balanced plan. You can be healthy and eat no real food at all, and live on protien powders and pills. Studies have been done on that actually, and we are basically walking garbage disposals. Our bodies are great at making do with bullshit, as long as that bullshit has meets certain requirements.
If you want, I can give you way more edutainment recomendations that will keep you off of gundry, just tell me how many you want so I don't spend three days typing the complete list.
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It's relative to the person. I don't do well on sweet fruits, maybe you do and can digest anything. I generally do well with dairy, family background supported this. Others don't do well.

Here is a quick criticism of Dr. Gundry:

"Dr. Steven Gundry’s recommendations—most notably outlined in his book The Plant Paradox—have been widely discredited by the medical and nutritional research community. [1, 2]

"Key Criticisms and Scientific Consensus
    • Lectin Claims Lack Evidence: Gundry asserts that lectins (proteins found in beans, grains, tomatoes, and other plants) cause "leaky gut," inflammation, weight gain, and autoimmune diseases. Nutrition and medical experts, including researchers from the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, state there is no solid human evidence supporting these claims. [1, 2, 3]
    • Contradicted by Longevity Data: Many of the world’s longest-living populations (such as those in Blue Zones) consume diets heavy in legumes, whole grains, and beans—all of which are high in lectins. [1, 2]
    • Cooking Neutralizes Lectins: Standard cooking methods (like boiling and steaming) easily neutralize harmful lectins in foods, making them safe and nutritious. [1]
    • Misinterpretation of Science: Reviewers have pointed out that Gundry frequently misinterprets or misrepresents scientific literature. For example, studies he cites linking animal-protein or shellfish swaps to lower cholesterol often reflect reduced saturated fat intake rather than the specific effects of lectins or dietary cholesterol. [1, 2]
    • Nutrient Deficiency Risks: Eliminating nutrient-dense, high-fiber foods like legumes, fruits, and whole grains removes critical components of a healthy diet, offering higher nutritional risks than benefits. [1]
    • Commercial Motives: Critics note that Gundry’s anti-lectin platform heavily drives sales of expensive, proprietary supplements (such as Total Restore and Lectin Shield) that lack independent clinical proof. [1, 2]

"Recommended Alternative
"Mainstream medical consensus favors balanced, plant-forward patterns—such as the Mediterranean diet—which are backed by extensive clinical research for reducing inflammation, supporting gut health, and extending life. [1, 2]"

"What (If Anything) Has Merit?
    • Eliminating Ultra-Processed Foods: The only part of Gundry’s program that yields real-world weight loss or health improvement for some people is the general rule to stop eating heavily processed foods, refined sugars, and junk food. However, doing this by cutting out nutrient-dense, whole plant foods like beans and whole grains is considered an unnecessary and potentially counterproductive way to achieve it. [1, 2, 3]"

People have become label readers and that's good. Unfortunately we can't be sure on food quality. Most of our fruits and vegetables are sprayed and have a lot less nutritional value than a generation ago.

Scientific studies show that many everyday fruits, vegetables, and grains have dropped in nutrient density over the last 50 to 100 years. [1, 2]

What the Data Shows
    • The 2004 University of Texas Study: Analyzing USDA data for 43 different garden crops between 1950 and 1999, researchers found consistent, statistically reliable declines in several key nutrients:
      • Protein: down about 6%
      • Calcium: down around 16%
      • Iron: down roughly 15%
      • Phosphorus: down about 9%
      • Vitamin C (Ascorbic acid): down about 15%
      • Riboflavin (Vitamin B2): down up to 38% [1, 2, 3]
    • Grains and Wheat: Studies tracking wheat from the mid-20th century to recent years show protein content dropping by roughly 23%, alongside drops in essential minerals like magnesium, iron, zinc, and manganese. [1]

Why This is Happening
    • The "Dilution Effect" from High-Yield Farming: Modern agriculture has been heavily optimized to grow crops larger, faster, and with higher total weight per acre. When a plant grows rapidly and swells with carbohydrates or water, the concentration of minerals and vitamins it absorbs from the soil is spread thinner across a larger volume of plant tissue. [1]
    • Rising Atmospheric CO₂: Higher levels of carbon dioxide act like an aerial fertilizer, causing plants to produce more starches and sugars. However, the soil does not supply a matching spike in minerals, which further dilutes the overall protein, iron, and zinc concentrations in staple crops like rice and wheat. [1, 2]
    • Selective Breeding: Crops have traditionally been selected for shelf-life, uniform appearance, pest resistance, and sweetness rather than peak micronutrient density. [1, 2]
 
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