treeMotion ANSI compliant?????

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Last week I was watching a 120kg climber lifting himself 1m on a tape attached to twin handles ascenders- don’t worry he told me the tape is rated at 22kN!

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What do you mean by 'tape'? Is that a webbing sling? I have also seen the term 'express tape'. Is that the same thing?

Thanks.
 
My understanding of the term tape is inter changeable with 'webbing' in climbing parlance.

My understanding of 'express tape' is a 'quickdraw sling': a short endless webbing sling typically less than 30cm, stitched to create sewn eyes each end. The rock climbing technique using these is called sport climbing, where such slings are used to protect the lead climber by incorporating a plain gate karabiner in each end - one end for the bolt, one end for the rope. The karabiners are held in the correct position to enable quick one handed connections of sling to bolt, rope to sling, important on the very technical (difficult) ascents. Hence 'quick draw' term.

Also variations found in Trad and alpine climbing.

Useful for quickly securing casualty to rescuer in aerial rescue when locking HMS krabs used. And err....attaching to ascenders
tongue.gif
 
Apologies for the terminology – I meant sling (some suppliers list under tapes and slings) – The one in question was a Beal 60cm (I think) Tape Sling.

Frank 1
 
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Lazarus’s post prompted me to reply.

...Last week I was watching a 120kg climber lifting himself 1m on a tape attached to twin handles ascenders- don’t worry he told me the tape is rated at 22kN!

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A 22kn sling connection from ascender to climber sounds good. What was the problem? Was the ascender not backed up? Or was it the way the sling was attached?
-moss
 
Sorry to have used this observation ( I was not having a go at well thought out access systems) – my point was just to illustrate protecting the harness and your body from loading. 120kg man has a lot of force to get rid of (some where) after a 1 metre fall. This chaps assessment of the system configuration and integrity was based solely upon the little 22kN label attached to the Tape Sling .

But in answer to your question – no back up or energy absorption (apart from a bit in the access line) etc- foot locking with twin ascender linked to front harness suspension with Tape Sling. Man capable of lifting himself 1m – can also fall 1m. Do a little F=MA for estimate of maximum force – against overall rating of device and its’ EN 567 designation etc.

Regards

Frank 1
 
Re: ANSI compliant?????

Or to put it another way, speculating on the risks of the technique described, the last thing a climber should worry about is a 22kN sling:

-A doubled ascender on a doubled line has no back up.
-A factor 1 fall will have a high force from poor energy absorption from a doubled line (ascenders are designed and tested for single kernmantle ropes).
-A doubled ascender is typically not securable to the doubled rope by clipping the top holes that it was originally designed to do.
-Ascenders are only rated to 4kN
-The line probably wasn't kernmantle, and so has an unknown quantity in a fall
- A speedy return to ground in the event of complications (e.g. bees).

The 22kN sling has a very large safety factor compared to the above points that were probably overlooked or ignored.

I suspect it was a succinct way of Frank trying to get us to 'think' about systems SECURITY over the dangerously limited reliance on STRENGTH?

The strength of something, MAY ensure a suitable margin for system security over time i.e. DURABLE SAFETY. But the CONSTRUCTION is just as important e.g. a single braid rope and kernmantle rope can be the same material and strength, but one is perfectly capable of retaining most of its breaking strength for 15 yrs whilst the other can lose half in 15 months.

Apply what we know about planning rigging systems to other areas of safety: Breaking strength divided by working load limit = the safety factor which implies a certain number of cycles before failure i.e. durable safety (or not as the case may be). The safety factor depends on the nature of the material e.g. a rope and karabiner both running at 5:1 certainly aren't going to have the same cycles to failure! So why have all components of a system (inc harness) rated the same strength? Makes for a very heavy harness that doesn't necessarily have durable safety, and an unknown quantity in a fall (especially if not tested for the possible fall).

Some food for thought.
 
What is the deal with the longevity of this saddle. From reading the documentation that came with the saddle one would think it is only good for 1 season of 40 hr. work weeks.

Or...........is this just a bunch of legal mumbo jumbo so that the manufacturer isn't liable???
 
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What does your car manufacturer say about your car? One year with a max of 60.000 miles? That doesn't mean you have to toss it away after that period does it?

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That's not an accurate analogy. You can still drive the car after the that. It's still safe to drive. The seatbelts will still work, the airbags will still work. They don't recommend you replace the car after the warranty expires. They are just saying they won't be paying for the repairs after that.

Repairs are rarely even an option for a saddle. Are you saying we should replace it after a year of heavy climbing?

love
nick
 
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That's not an accurate analogy. You can still drive the car after the that. It's still safe to drive. The seatbelts will still work, the airbags will still work. They don't recommend you replace the car after the warranty expires. They are just saying they won't be paying for the repairs after that.

Repairs are rarely even an option for a saddle. Are you saying we should replace it after a year of heavy climbing?

love
nick

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Than that's a perfect analogy I think. That's exactly my point. You don't toss the car away after 60.000 miles or one year. It's probably still as new and you will have many more miles to run with it in happiness
grin.gif


That will probably be the same with the Treemotion.... Many more years of happy climbing.

As Rich already put it so nicely:

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Or...........is this just a bunch of legal mumbo jumbo so that the manufacturer isn't liable???

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A bunch of legal mumbo jumbo, probably true, but heck, that's probably necessary when it is sold to "I will sue you for that" country's.
 

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