Tree Waste

One of my brothers (a welder by trade) needed a kiln to powdercoat a couple of motorcycle frames, and built one out of an old Ryder or U-Haul truck's van box, which he spotted lying in a ditch alongside a gravel road. He made a very small wood burning stove (mounted outside of main box in a sheetmetal box attached to the side) and piped the heat into it. I thought it would ignite the fumes or something, but it didn't. After using it for a couple of months, he used the little stove to heat his garage and took the rest of it to the scrap yard.

I wonder if that same idea couldn't be used to dry wood? Perhaps use a small oil-filled electric heater for the heat source. For us low-budget hillbillies.
 
With firewood I hope you're burning scraps to dry that cord wood. With board feet too much heat, too fast leads to cracking and checking.
 
With firewood I hope you're burning scraps to dry that cord wood. With board feet too much heat, too fast leads to cracking and checking.
exactly! apparently it has to be done slowly or you'll get major checking and splits especially at the ends. cool idea with the ol' u-haul though.
 
There are many ways to dry wood with a kiln...Depends on type of wood, dimensions of wood and moisture content to name a few variable in the equation. Not to mention the type of kiln and performance characteristics.

Note, I am no expert at this...this is info I have gleaned from speaking with people familiar kilns and reading about it. If anyone can further my knowledge, I will be thankful. Again, There are many ways to go about making a kiln and every kiln functions different based on several variables. There is much trial and error involved. Myself I'm most interested in live edge hardwood, like 3"+ thick. I've been told...Logs sit for 12-18 months off the ground. They get milled and stickered back together in log shape, then strapped, to help prevent warping. Like the way you stack/sticker/weight dimensional lumber when air drying. Then air dried for at least 6months. Then they get kiln dried for a few days. First few days are not as hot as the last. Air flow and humidity (or lack of) through and around the wood is as important as the temperature. Temps in the kiln I'm interested in can vary from 120-190f for hardwoods. It becomes a bunch of recipes for different types of wood once the operator gets a feel for the kilns production.
Then there is the whole "setting the pitch" for soft woods recipes....we could go on for pages on this stuff.
 
I wonder if that same idea couldn't be used to dry wood? Perhaps use a small oil-filled electric heater for the heat source. For us low-budget hillbillies.
There are folks around here who are kiln drying cord wood so they can legally transport it further then the 50 mile firewood transport ban. New York State DEC requires 160F for 75 minutes...they claim this gets sterilizes and reduces moisture content to 18% at least. Some I have heard of are doing it in insulated tractor trailer trailers in bins that are moved in and out with a fork lifts.
 
There are folks around here who are kiln drying cord wood so they can legally transport it further then the 50 mile firewood transport ban. New York State DEC requires 160F for 75 minutes...they claim this gets sterilizes and reduces moisture content to 18% at least. Some I have heard of are doing it in insulated tractor trailer trailers in bins that are moved in and out with a fork lifts.

I've never heard of that. Is that for EAB? Doesn't seem like that temp would kill an insect.
 
I was explained that the inherent inefficiencies with cord wood /or chunks is bringing the wood up to combustion temp. It robs the efficiency of the process....Imagine little pieces being feed at a time as opposed to big dense "cold" chunks. Kinda why pellet stove are so efficient...remember this is what some one explained to me.
It's the not the cord wood that inherently inefficient, it's the appliance used to burn it. If you need 800mbtu then cord word won't work simply because of the manual labour to move it around. Chips is the way to go.

Good luck, you're on the right path.

V
 
It's the not the cord wood that inherently inefficient, it's the appliance used to burn it. If you need 800mbtu then cord word won't work simply because of the manual labour to move it around. Chips is the way to go.

Good luck, you're on the right path.

V
thanks very interested I the
Fröling TX 150
I think I could get by with 500,000btuh

The other unit I was interested was a 800,000btuh chip boiler. We were just going to heat the driveway so we did not have to plow or make a swimming pool to dump the heat. ha!
 
I wonder if the most progressive idea wouldn't be for municipalities to offer tree waste burial sites, helping them meet their own carbon reduction goals (for example, this in my town), somewhat after the manner of what's proposed here. Local residents should be enticed because the land used to bury the tree waste would thereafter be permanent green space (you might plant trees on such ground, but you couldn't easily construct stuff on it).

Has anyone heard of anyone pursuing this sort of thing? If the facts are favorable, I'd love to see this sort of thing done.
 
The university-town pledge to reduce their carbon emissions is good. We need more organizations doing this type of reduction. Looking at manmade point sources and taking steps to mitigate them. As for the sequestration concept, I don't see this as fully thought out, despite appearances to the contrary.

It's predicated on a couple of assumptions: the continued absence of climate change policies and the cost of alternative fuels being more at present than fossil fuels. The solutions put forth are: reduction or sequestration. Well reduction would mean using less fossil fuel. Since we're hooked on that like a junkie to heroin or crack then hey lets sequester. Well, to do that from the point sources would be pricey and we're running out of places to put what we collect from there. Cheap decommissioned mines and the ocean floor are current sites. But, with dead trees lying all over the forest floors of the world and, well while we're there, some of the standing trees, living that is. could be collected and buried or stored above ground (Visions of X-files type warehouses).

Basically the logging industry says this would be way cheaper! I suspect they are thinking about those X-files type warehouses won't be necessary and all that dead stuff that can't be sold could be buried AND they get paid for it. Wow, now they can charge to deal with what was just a problem that cost them. The author makes no reference to the CO2 that would be spewed in the process of collecting all that considering the heavy equipment that would be necessary and the access roads that would be cut. Now this brings up a couple of other points he kinda brushes aside, environmental damage and loss of biodiversity as we cut up every last forest on earth to get to all that sequestered CO2. This all sounds like the ultimate junkie's dream, getting paid to shoot up!

Sorry, Nish. It just sounds like a bad idea put forth without the full consequences being accounted for.
 
The university-town pledge to reduce their carbon emissions is good. We need more organizations doing this type of reduction. Looking at manmade point sources and taking steps to mitigate them. As for the sequestration concept, I don't see this as fully thought out, despite appearances to the contrary.

It's predicated on a couple of assumptions: the continued absence of climate change policies and the cost of alternative fuels being more at present than fossil fuels. The solutions put forth are: reduction or sequestration. Well reduction would mean using less fossil fuel. Since we're hooked on that like a junkie to heroin or crack then hey lets sequester. Well, to do that from the point sources would be pricey and we're running out of places to put what we collect from there. Cheap decommissioned mines and the ocean floor are current sites. But, with dead trees lying all over the forest floors of the world and, well while we're there, some of the standing trees, living that is. could be collected and buried or stored above ground (Visions of X-files type warehouses).

Basically the logging industry says this would be way cheaper! I suspect they are thinking about those X-files type warehouses won't be necessary and all that dead stuff that can't be sold could be buried AND they get paid for it. Wow, now they can charge to deal with what was just a problem that cost them. The author makes no reference to the CO2 that would be spewed in the process of collecting all that considering the heavy equipment that would be necessary and the access roads that would be cut. Now this brings up a couple of other points he kinda brushes aside, environmental damage and loss of biodiversity as we cut up every last forest on earth to get to all that sequestered CO2. This all sounds like the ultimate junkie's dream, getting paid to shoot up!

Sorry, Nish. It just sounds like a bad idea put forth without the full consequences being accounted for.

So I'm not suggesting the logging scheme put forward by the author, with all the logging roads, etc. I'm rather talking about providing options to bury some of the tree waste that's already headed to county dump, to the tub grinder, and to the firewood cutters. Sure there would be fossil fuels used in excavation and burial, but I'm not convinced it'd be a wash. We'd need some experts to weigh in on this (I was thinking, however, that if the author's scheme had any promise, then all the more for my more modest one). On environmental side, I'd think the permanent green spaces created near populations would be a plus.
 
Wood burial as a means of sequestration would only be beneficial if we stopped using fossil fuels. Why bury wood and burn gas or oil to heat? Why burn coal to make electricity when you can do it with wood? Fossil fuels are old buried wood essentially. It's a net loss.
We should be using wood wastes to offset fossil fuel use and at the same time reduce energy consumption.

We're not that far off from feeling our vehicles with liquefied syngas or fuel brewed from biomass.

V
 
While on that level it might have some merit. As it stands if it's headed to the dump to be buried then it's achieved the goal you set forth. But it's a wasted resource when it could be used for other purposes. More efficient wood burning technologies for firewood, repurposing of the wood that now is considered unusable simply because of the risk of embedded metal. Some species of trees could be used in Hugelkultur beds but that actually relies on decomposition.

We become distracted from the goal of weaning off of fossil fuels by seeking what is in effect offsets instead of real reductions.

As a side note, the conversion of organics to fossil fuels is not likely to happen since the evolution of fungi that feed on the tissues that gave rise to the fuels. Unless we kill those off as well....
 
we're pretty lucky here in central NH. we're also a logging contractor so we have an account with the biomass plant and can dump chips (no rakings) at the plant and get paid $17 a ton, any logs get sold to area concentration yards or direct to the mill, any oversize or junk gets dumped at the grinding yard for free. Firewood log length we keep, chunks I give away. The chips pay for my fuel in the chipper and truck for the year.
 
we're pretty lucky here in central NH. we're also a logging contractor so we have an account with the biomass plant and can dump chips (no rakings) at the plant and get paid $17 a ton, any logs get sold to area concentration yards or direct to the mill, any oversize or junk gets dumped at the grinding yard for free. Firewood log length we keep, chunks I give away. The chips pay for my fuel in the chipper and truck for the year.
$17/ton seems pretty cheap, is there no mulch market around you? How many tons can your truck haul?
 
No mulch markets around us. i don't know anyone around here grinding chips for mulch. Even when I was in CT near Hartford we could dump chips for free and they would turn them to mulch. Never heard of guys getting paid to dump chips and getting paid for mulch here in the Northeast. Then again I don't get around much. The big mechanized logging crews doing whole tree chips only get $28 a ton for 25-30 ton loads. I'm considered a small supplier only bringing in 2-3.5 tons in at a time.
 
Right oh. Sounds like you should market your special blend of "the way Mother Nature wanted it "...."natural mulch". Straight up tree service special wood chips with all the good stuff in it, I call it "parent litter material", just like the forest floor. Put it back where it came from, for $35/yard thank you!
 
I heard from a guy in Cambridge who grinds that he needs to add a bunch of leaves with the chips to balance it out.

He used to allow grass trimmings from the lawn jockeys. That is until the whole batch got contaminated with weed n feed. Big loss, no more grass trimmings.
 

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