I just got done watching a show to inform on tree planting and what not on the local public channel. It was put on by the environmental center which is a stone throw away from my house and the guy talking to them as the expert was a landscaper. I was intrigued to see what he had to say and what qualifications make him an expert. Other than the typical well I've been doing it for X number of years I heard nothing. He left all the burlap on the root ball and left the wire basket. There was no attempt to expose the root flair. And he had the audacity to talk about planting trees too deep. And to finish it all off he put the mulch right there against the trunk. It was awesome... So tomorrow I'm heading to the environmental center. So I can talk to them about the program and their tree plantings. It just frustrates me. There's two certified arborist in town.. yes I being one and the other owns a company who tops trees and they get the landscraper who thinks he knows. Does he not know about girdling roots and how long the basket and burlap will truly stay.
Tree planting so called expert
- Thread starter PUClimber
- Start date
- Location
- Michigan
This ia very disturbing....but it happens everywhere. We just did a consulting job, where the landscaper planted 30 Norway spruce under the electrical wires, with wire baskets and twine still attached and, to top it all off, diseased trees. The customer had paid them 25,000!
- Location
- South Jersey
Hello all. First, I'm no arborist but I thought it was ok to leave the burlap on as long as you removed the twine, opened up the burlap, and pulled it away from where it's tied around the trunk.
I was told the burlap would break down once in the ground.
I was also told, by a landscaper, that there was no need to remove the twine because it would also break down.
That didn't make sense to me because the twine looks like it's nylon, so I always cut it off.
Am I wrong????
I was told the burlap would break down once in the ground.
I was also told, by a landscaper, that there was no need to remove the twine because it would also break down.
That didn't make sense to me because the twine looks like it's nylon, so I always cut it off.
Am I wrong????
boreality
New member
- Location
- boreal forest
Burlap and string don't break down in the ground as there isn't enough oxygen. Not in time to not screw up the roots anyway.
This and other practices going on are just nuts. Even without training I'd think common sense would solve this problem. Hopefully this information age we're in will correct this quickly.
This and other practices going on are just nuts. Even without training I'd think common sense would solve this problem. Hopefully this information age we're in will correct this quickly.
southsoundtree
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Olympia, WA
synthetic burlap is used sometimes, and the twine is so often the orange synthetic line, too.
Leaving the burlap on there will make it hard to see if there are circling roots, as well.
All that stuff will wrap around a grinder wheel, too, if the time comes.
Leaving the burlap on there will make it hard to see if there are circling roots, as well.
All that stuff will wrap around a grinder wheel, too, if the time comes.
tomthetreeman
Participating member
- Location
- Rhode Island
It is sometimes OK to leave some burlap on as well as simply bending the basket down as far as possible, or cutting the top 1/3-1/2 of the basket. Certain trees will not transplant well with the root system disturbed, and are better off kept relatively whole. Nyssa sylvatica is one example. Also if the parent soil (in the ball) is clay that has hardened, you can really stress a tree out by breaking up the clay, as it comes off in large sections.
I try to remove as much as possible, preferably everything, but I take it on a case by case basis.
-Tom
I try to remove as much as possible, preferably everything, but I take it on a case by case basis.
-Tom
- Location
- South Jersey
[ QUOTE ]
Burlap and string don't break down in the ground as there isn't enough oxygen. Not in time to not screw up the roots anyway.
This and other practices going on are just nuts. Even without training I'd think common sense would solve this problem. Hopefully this information age we're in will correct this quickly.
[/ QUOTE ]
boreality - Thanks for the info. Regarding your "common sense" comment. If you're not an arborist, and you've never planted a tree before, wouldn't following the tree planting advice from the owner of a successful nursery/landscaping business be good "common sense"?
-BarnHouse
Burlap and string don't break down in the ground as there isn't enough oxygen. Not in time to not screw up the roots anyway.
This and other practices going on are just nuts. Even without training I'd think common sense would solve this problem. Hopefully this information age we're in will correct this quickly.
[/ QUOTE ]
boreality - Thanks for the info. Regarding your "common sense" comment. If you're not an arborist, and you've never planted a tree before, wouldn't following the tree planting advice from the owner of a successful nursery/landscaping business be good "common sense"?
-BarnHouse
boreality
New member
- Location
- boreal forest
Sorry Barnhouse I thought you could be offended by that comment, but I hoped you wouldn't. Not directed at you but the situation.
I'm just disgusted that it is the landscape/nursery trade norm to plant a tree improperly and give the same advice. It's the same as pruning trees by cutting the branches in half. It's customers paying for nothing or damage.
If an electrician did something that wrong your house would burn down, with a plumber your sewer would back up.
And your right it should be common sense to follow expert advice. It's crazy but it's an industry standard to plant nowhere near correct even though it doesn't take that much more time and effort. I can't even come up with an explanation how we got to this point.
I'm just disgusted that it is the landscape/nursery trade norm to plant a tree improperly and give the same advice. It's the same as pruning trees by cutting the branches in half. It's customers paying for nothing or damage.
If an electrician did something that wrong your house would burn down, with a plumber your sewer would back up.
And your right it should be common sense to follow expert advice. It's crazy but it's an industry standard to plant nowhere near correct even though it doesn't take that much more time and effort. I can't even come up with an explanation how we got to this point.
- Location
- South Jersey
boreality - I wasn't offended by the comment, just confused as to whether or not it was directed at me.
I see that the way I phrased my question was also taken the wrong way. There was no aggression meant in it. I should have used one of these
You got the idea of it though, and that was when you don't know something, you count on the advice of "experts" as being correct. It's a bit of a bummer when you find out something different.
Anyway...Sorry for the confusion.
-BarnHouse
I see that the way I phrased my question was also taken the wrong way. There was no aggression meant in it. I should have used one of these
You got the idea of it though, and that was when you don't know something, you count on the advice of "experts" as being correct. It's a bit of a bummer when you find out something different.
Anyway...Sorry for the confusion.
-BarnHouse
flyingsquirrel25
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- South East, PA
[ QUOTE ]
If you're not an arborist, and you've never planted a tree before, wouldn't following the tree planting advice from the owner of a successful nursery/landscaping business be good "common sense"?
-BarnHouse
[/ QUOTE ]
Not all the time. I took a large pine down for a customer and suggested a couple Norway spruce as a replacement. I returned this spring to do some more work and he was all proud that he had done as I suggested, and got the nursery to plant him 3 new spruces. The first problem was they "drilled" each hole 2' wide for a 2.5' root ball
. Next they didnt get rid of the excess soil they mounded it up on top of the ball
. When I removed the soil to find the root flare, they had left the basket, burlap (synthetic) and twine on the ball.
. When I finaly got past looking at the horrable planting job, I looked at the trees... They sold him 2 white spruce and one norway
. I suggested he call them back and ask for a refund.
If you're not an arborist, and you've never planted a tree before, wouldn't following the tree planting advice from the owner of a successful nursery/landscaping business be good "common sense"?
-BarnHouse
[/ QUOTE ]
Not all the time. I took a large pine down for a customer and suggested a couple Norway spruce as a replacement. I returned this spring to do some more work and he was all proud that he had done as I suggested, and got the nursery to plant him 3 new spruces. The first problem was they "drilled" each hole 2' wide for a 2.5' root ball
treehumper
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Ridgefield, NJ
We'll be doing a removal job of a row of landscaper planted arbos All still in their synthetic burlap. Actually it looks like a black tarp.
In most situations the cage, burlap, string all go.
"Common sense" is unusually absent in way too many people or it may be that society has done a remarkably good job of convincing people not to rely on it.
In most situations the cage, burlap, string all go.
"Common sense" is unusually absent in way too many people or it may be that society has done a remarkably good job of convincing people not to rely on it.
jmcscrap
Participating member
- Location
- Woodbury, MN
Has anyone tried to "bareroot" your B&B trees? I have done this a few times when the ball is loose and breaking roots is not a concern. These trees have done just fine or even better than the ones where I peeled the burlap down and just took the basket off. I have also used a hose to wash off some of the roots when the ball is compacted and dry.
flyingsquirrel25
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- South East, PA
[ QUOTE ]
Has anyone tried to "bareroot" your B&B trees? I have done this a few times when the ball is loose and breaking roots is not a concern. These trees have done just fine or even better than the ones where I peeled the burlap down and just took the basket off. I have also used a hose to wash off some of the roots when the ball is compacted and dry.
[/ QUOTE ]
I did this on a yellow birch 3 years ago. Its doing great. It gave me a chance to fix a couple major root issues before I planted it (I would not have seen if planted B&B). The other good thing was I was able to spread the roots out evenly, and "mud it in", making it so I did not have to stake the tree. Planted a 8' stick now I have a 16-18' tree.
Has anyone tried to "bareroot" your B&B trees? I have done this a few times when the ball is loose and breaking roots is not a concern. These trees have done just fine or even better than the ones where I peeled the burlap down and just took the basket off. I have also used a hose to wash off some of the roots when the ball is compacted and dry.
[/ QUOTE ]
I did this on a yellow birch 3 years ago. Its doing great. It gave me a chance to fix a couple major root issues before I planted it (I would not have seen if planted B&B). The other good thing was I was able to spread the roots out evenly, and "mud it in", making it so I did not have to stake the tree. Planted a 8' stick now I have a 16-18' tree.
treehumper
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Ridgefield, NJ
I've been reading about a move toward bare-rooting B&B and containerized trees to allow for correction of root problems.
While I haven't done this myself I have planted bare root stock. Much easier and the trees do great.
While I haven't done this myself I have planted bare root stock. Much easier and the trees do great.
- Location
- Dallas, Texas
I ask people, "Can you remember trees are good?"
Usually a dumbed response, looking somewhat like they didn't know that 2 + 2 = 4, but anyways...
I continue, "TreesAreGood.org"
Or is that just a site with a bunch of theoretical rhetoric by people who don't ever plant trees, who just write about doing taking care of trees. Have any of these media outlets put a little coda that might refer the audience to higher knowledge.
I think not.
Usually a dumbed response, looking somewhat like they didn't know that 2 + 2 = 4, but anyways...
I continue, "TreesAreGood.org"
Or is that just a site with a bunch of theoretical rhetoric by people who don't ever plant trees, who just write about doing taking care of trees. Have any of these media outlets put a little coda that might refer the audience to higher knowledge.
I think not.
tomthetreeman
Participating member
- Location
- Rhode Island
[ QUOTE ]
Has anyone tried to "bareroot" your B&B trees? I have done this a few times when the ball is loose and breaking roots is not a concern. These trees have done just fine or even better than the ones where I peeled the burlap down and just took the basket off. I have also used a hose to wash off some of the roots when the ball is compacted and dry.
[/ QUOTE ]
I have done this quite a bit, with mixed results. It is definitely species and stress specific. A tree that is already majorly stressed from digging will not respond well, but in general, it works well. I do a hybrid version usually, I don't remove everything, but I bust it up pretty well, and pretty much ALWAYS have to dig down to excavate the root flare. In my experience it works better with Maple, Birch, Katsura, Goldenrain tree, Honeylocust, and some others I can't think of right now.
It does NOT work well with Tupelo or Oak in my experience. Also be careful with Horsechestnut and other 'nut' trees, as they can be tricky transplants.
-Tom
Has anyone tried to "bareroot" your B&B trees? I have done this a few times when the ball is loose and breaking roots is not a concern. These trees have done just fine or even better than the ones where I peeled the burlap down and just took the basket off. I have also used a hose to wash off some of the roots when the ball is compacted and dry.
[/ QUOTE ]
I have done this quite a bit, with mixed results. It is definitely species and stress specific. A tree that is already majorly stressed from digging will not respond well, but in general, it works well. I do a hybrid version usually, I don't remove everything, but I bust it up pretty well, and pretty much ALWAYS have to dig down to excavate the root flare. In my experience it works better with Maple, Birch, Katsura, Goldenrain tree, Honeylocust, and some others I can't think of right now.
It does NOT work well with Tupelo or Oak in my experience. Also be careful with Horsechestnut and other 'nut' trees, as they can be tricky transplants.
-Tom
boreality
New member
- Location
- boreal forest
With bare rooting the most important issue would be not allowing them to become dry. With conifers in particular any dryness will effect survival. Have a dip tank or a sprayer avalible. With silvaculture we'd use a jelly type dip, I'm not sure of the additives but it was harmful to humans. Probably hormones and fert. maybe fungicide and pesticide, not sure. Just gelatine and water would probably work almost as well or transporting and sitting in moist peat.
tomthetreeman
Participating member
- Location
- Rhode Island
A simple hydrogel and water slurry is what we have used in the past. Got the idea from Nina Bassuk.
-Tom
-Tom
- Location
- under grace
Here is our standard approach. 1-Undo the twin off the trunk.2,Find the root flare to establish natural qrade,sometimes we have to cut as many as 6" of dirt from the top of the ball to get it right.Some times we even root prune.3 pull the natural burlap back and down below the root system after cuttin the wire basket.4 dig a nice wide hole 2 to 2 1/2xs the size of the root ball,then take the shovel and place it perpendicular to the edge of the hole makeing radial slices in the ground surrounding the hole to further fracture the soil.5, take the shovel and push the remainin burlap down into the hole aainst the bottom of the ball. (there are usually no roots down that low)!! 6, add an organic mychorrhizzael planting ammendment.7, Backfill the hole.8,Water. 9.if planting in a lawn area we use the cut turf turned upside down to form our water well.10.Mulch with composted wood chips Not against the trunk. WE are Really anal about our system!! we explain to people what we do and we charge for it. Usually 3xs retail
