Training seminars or sales pitches?

T

Treebeard

Location
Charleston, SC
So I am confused. My friend went to a climbing workshop and was showed more gear then technique. Most of it was oriented for SRT. So here is where it gets confusing, why are training sales reps pushing SRT, but ITCC says its unsafe
Next is the whole training seminars that sales pitches for gear. What happened to tree work. I swear there are more green guys coming out of this new generation that have no business in a tree let alone running a saw in a tree. It seems if they don't have the little thing that does the little something they can't do diddly squat.
My two cents, lets spend more time acually training to do production then saying we are training but selling a bunch of gear.
 
Sounds fair enough to me.

I am what I would call, ‘old school’ on a lot of stuff. I will add in what I can see safely using and getting better results. Different people are different and I would not fault anyone employing all new and cutting edge techniques if it worked well for them.

If I am committing my money and or time to a workshop I would want to know ahead of time what percentage of time will be spent on educating me about technique (for me-mostly) and what percentage of time would be spent on educating me about what I can buy (for them-mostly). If they do not have what it takes to clearly lay that out in the ‘come to our workshop’ pitch then they are not acting with integrity. And if that workshop presenter thinks I am wrong or speaking too harshly then they should be happy to have their name out in print along with your friends accurate portrayal of what percentage was tech. training and what percentage sales.

What workshop/presenter was it?

I need training and I buy tools/gear. I would like to know who to (consider), not going to.

Our society needs more integrity, and presenters should know they will be held to account.
 
Don't confuse the sport of tree climbing competitions with the workaday life of a production climber. Be careful.

Where has ITCC said that SRT is unsafe? The reasons that SRT isn't allowed are still vague and unclear.

There has been a tendancy to have infomercial 'training' for many years. and I agree sometimes there is less training and more selling. Not always though.

I've been on SRT for close to 20 years. In the last few years its become standard practice for every day work.
 
Didn't think ITCC was a sport. Thought it was a demonstration of everyday work practices, set to a competition event.
Frustrated in hearing of the training sale pitches. Seeing new climbers hung up on having the certain gadget to do a job. Watching climbers take 30 min to set up for a tree while the old school guy is already done with it. The industry pitching techniques then the event that is the industries main event doesn't agree with them.
I see climbers looking for the easy way to do tree work. Guess what, this is not an easy job.
Hey I climb SRT, I use new gear, but if there isn't a throw line, or another guy needs part of my system, the job gets done.
Maybe I need to get out more, cause I see a declining work ethic happening and these sale training classes don't help.
 
I came home today from a rec climb to find this post. I was packing up my gear and I felt really good about what was in my bag and what wasn't. I've been gear obsessed and it has definitely hurt my productivity at times. I've developed a less is more philosophy after being "that guy" who is still trying to set a line or set up my system while other guys are working. Go with what you know and just go at it! Mess around with new stuff on your own time, then you can actually enjoy yourself while you're trying the new stuff.
 
In order to steer clear of work related regulations the ITCC isn't considered work. Don't get hung up on the SRT-ITCC though

I've been hearing too much gear chatter for decades along with declining work ethics or standards too. Just the way it is.

Geeks are geeks. There are minimalist geeks and gear head geeks. I e done gear checks at comps where one climber has one duffel and the. Next has three. Everyone should be able to climb with just a rope...three loop bowline etc. but I'd rather have my big shot, treeflex and srt. It keeps my body healthy
 
Training like all investments of time and money should be made carefully and informed.

I cannot speak to the specific course referred to, nor will I judge it's quality.

I can tell you this, there are good trainers and training and there are poor.

Converting ideas and techniques, especially in an industry such as are involves much more than gear and skill using it.

Excellent trainers study the skill of training, work to master teaching and communication. They should already be good arboricultural technicians.

Again, I cannot comment to the person who attended the training, but keep in mind, we all get back what we put in to any situation in life, training or otherwise.

It is the first and foremost mission of a trainer to encourage attendees to put forth fully by providing the proper context.

Tony
 
[ QUOTE ]
In order to steer clear of work related regulations the ITCC isn't considered work. Don't get hung up on the SRT-ITCC though


[/ QUOTE ]

Good advice. ITCC and Production are like distant cousins.

The best definition I have ever heard for production is this:

Production = efficiency accomplished safely

SLT-WP and/or SLT Ascent are vital tools in this, as are many arrangements of gear, technique and attitude.

DbL Techniques are also tools to be used and explored. Many ways, many options, yet to be explored!

Tony
 
I just went to my first TCC and if anybody 'worked' like we competed, they wouldnt have a job for long! :) :)

Interested to know what training seminar the OP had issue with.
 
The worst are tree health care seminars where you are basically told what chemicals to buy. There is little money in training people to use a taught line and basic saddle. Many of these seminars are sponsored by gear stores or manufacturers. Many times they are marketing ploys where the object is not to train climbers but to sell more gear. If you want objectivity and true training, look for a seminar that costs a lot of money to attend and is not related to any interests. I personally have done "trainings". Where the only financial incentive for me being there is that maybe I can sell a few rope wrenches. In that case I'm not going to spend time teaching people how to ddrt.
The ITCC also has nothing to do with anything. The rules for a climbing competition have nothing to do with what is allowed or acceptable work practices. They are not a regulatory body of any kind and should not be thought of as such. It's funny when people say "such and such is not allowed!" Not allowed by whom? If its not allowed in a non-proffessional weekend fun day competition, it has no bearing on what is actually allowed by government work regulations which are usually very broad and basic ideas rather than based on specific techniques.
 
Well said Kevin! I got a ZK-2 and an ABR Stiffy as a prize at the Ohio TCC, which made me laugh. It will be nice to have another SRT setup for taking people rec climbing, as well as giving me a chance to give the ZK-2 some more work time.
 
Just curious how much did the seminar cost ? I understand If it doesnt cost much then the sponsors of the event gotta recoup their investment hence in sales.Ive went to several of these work shops that are centered around selling products and ive still learned stuff from all of them.they are usually low cost and I get ceus so I win either way.If the stuff they are pushing can make my job more productive or safer then thats a bonus,take them for what they are.I watched Our comps masters this year and saw 2 of the 4 climbers complete 4 task in an 85 foot pecan and get all there gear out ready for the next tree in 23 minutes.That seems pretty productive to me but its a comp so you gotta take it for what they are as well . For the record some competition climbers I know are monster production climbers as well.
 
My work order never says
"climb monster oak and remove 4 pieces of deadwood".

It always says
"Get a buddy, climb monster oak for 4 hours removing dones of broken, dead, crossed, rubbing limbs, come down from oak and chip for an hour, cleanup and drive to next job.

I agree with you other comments on the seminars though. Everyone is selling something, its either another seminar, a service, or a product.
 
We cannot prune oaks between febuary and june due to Oak wilt restrictions.But we have exemptions hazardous deadwood or if its being wounded by trucks,roof ,etc etc. So yes we get to climb monster Oaks and literally only remove 4 limbs sometimes and it is awesome.
 
I do understand the separation between church and state, oh sorry comps and work. I have competed some, and yes my competition mode does reflect my everyday work. Probably why I can't get past Cormac.
And I have instructed some, again it was a reflection of my work practices, again probably why I don't instruct. ( not really)
I loved the story of this years master climb, where the climber did what he had to. Not limited by his gear.
That is where my point is leading. That our teaching mentors, may they be instructors, competitors, foreman, or more experienced workers, learn from our fore fathers of tree world and not forget the hard work ethic that comes with being a tree guy
This topic seeds into many others, as I see my next generation learning We as a generation have lost touch with learning hands on, basic skills. In all trades.
 
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