too much friction thru redirect?

C

ccooper

Location
Hoschton, GA
I had to prune a few dead limbs yesterday out on the very end of a long limbwalk, so I set up a redirect above about half the distance out to lessen the rope angle. Everything was going fine (a little more friction than normal, but not too bad), till I got finished and started my return. The friction then got really bad. I replicated the climb again with a better redirect biner, but there still was lots of friction on the return. The redirect limb was higher than I preferred (not much lower than the tip), but I didn't think that would cause that much friction and it was the only limb available. Redirect was sewn nylon loop girth hitched around limb with offset d biner first and then a wider rope area pear biner second.
 
treebing said:
Doubled rope problems. Try using two biner instead of one. One Biner for each leg.
Click to expand...
I tried 2 biners on the same redirect briefly, but the 2 legs of rope still seemed to pull together tight when loaded. I thought about setting 2 different side by side redirects for separation of each leg of rope, but that just seemed like too much trouble. This is one of those things along with tip isolation that gets me more and more wanting to try SRT.
 
Nice idea the Anchor Biner (y)

ISC offers a double pulley for DdRT redirects (nothing new I think).
ISC_REDIRECT.webp

Another way to keep the ropes separated is a biner and a pinto

Pinto redirect.webp

I played around also with the Rock Exotica Omniblock 1.5 Double. It worked fine for sure but is some heavy metal on the harness.

Rock-Exotica-Omni-Block-Double-15.webp
 
Howie65 said:
View attachment 35676
Another way to keep the ropes separated is a biner and a pinto

View attachment 35678
Click to expand...

I like Howie's suggestions but I add a second pinto to capture the tail and create a 3:1. It sounds like a lot of gear, but it is two small pintos, 2 biners, and a strap. The 3:1 saves so much energy. It's poring down rain here, or I'd rig up and take a photo.



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treebing said:
the m system is awesome as well. where some good taylor hamel vids?
Click to expand...
That's what I was trying to refer to, but forgot what the technical term was. It saves me so much energy. Same idea, but with a redirect and tail capture down the line.


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The isc double pulley howie mentioned would definitely solve that problem...but that drawing of a "partitioned double biner" is insanely intriguing. I would definitely carry one. Wonder if we could con someone into building in a roller, like the revolver...
 
Howie65 said:
I'm in with the idea of an Anchor Biner BUT I think a redirect needs to be life support and therefore the gates must be tri-lock? Am I right?
Click to expand...
Right. I liked the bent gates for easy install and in a way it is double locking as your rope needs to come out of both sides etc...but yes if it were a thing it would need locking mechanisms on both gates. That's what we decided in that earlier thread too. I had approached Rock Exotica with this concept and they said they were too busy with other stuff, but they liked the idea... I think also that this has more application in the trees and they are more geared for rocks and rescue etc.
 
ccooper said:
I had to prune a few dead limbs yesterday out on the very end of a long limbwalk, so I set up a redirect above about half the distance out to lessen the rope angle. Everything was going fine (a little more friction than normal, but not too bad), till I got finished and started my return. The friction then got really bad. I replicated the climb again with a better redirect biner, but there still was lots of friction on the return. The redirect limb was higher than I preferred (not much lower than the tip), but I didn't think that would cause that much friction and it was the only limb available. Redirect was sewn nylon loop girth hitched around limb with offset d biner first and then a wider rope area pear biner second.
Click to expand...


If you will have to go back up to get redirect hardware, this is where you tie-in locally, change your DdRT to SRT by clipping your DdRT termination biner to a midline point, above your multiscender (I like the HH, no changeover) making a big loop tied around your TIP which is now going to be stationary. You can hop through a crotch or use redirect hardware.

You can also simply set up a 3:1 at this point on your single rope section of your stationary rope system.

Go down, do your work, come back up. Tie-in locally, change your SRT back to DdRT, resume climbing DdRT.


Alternately, just embrace SRT, skip DdRT from the get-go.
 
southsoundtree said:
If you will have to go back up to get redirect hardware, this is where you tie-in locally, change your DdRT to SRT by clipping your DdRT termination biner to a midline point, above your multiscender (I like the HH, no changeover) making a big loop tied around your TIP which is now going to be stationary. You can hop through a crotch or use redirect hardware.
Click to expand...

This means you have a "parked" DdRT-system before your redirect, at the redirect it is SRT with lets say just a webbing and a biner and behind the redirect it is 3:1. That is a very cool idea. I like it!
Because of the 3:1 this should also work with a HC instead of a SRT device - at least if I can control the tail with my second hand.

What I did not understand is "making a big loop tied around your TIP". Are you thinking about something like the On Bight Redirect?
 
Suppose you prefer DdRT, but know that it will really screw you on a limbwalk with Re-direct.

If you're TIP is 80', and you are at 60' looking at a long horizontal limbwalk at 40', you can lanyard in, take your DdRT termination biner, and clove-hitch it to your climb line above your srt compatible device (RW, HH, Uni, etc). This will make a 20' loop around your TIP, not cinched up. Consider a 3:1 installation at this point to prep for returning from the limb-walk. Drop through the crotch or redirect hardware at 60' partway horizontally out from your TIP. Lower to 40', do your work, and re-ascend to 60'. lanyard in and change from srt to DdRT.



More simply, start with SRT.

You can shoot throwline into the tree, and pull up the SRT rope into place, with a 3:1 already installed near the TIP.
 
Thank you for your additional explanation - now I have understood how you would do it. The big loop it really a cool idea and has a place in my toolbox now.

With SRT I am familiar already, but DdRT is not dead for me. I have a ZZ and a HC and also a HH and a RW. Because I am a rec climber my aim is to have fun in the tree and I like to permanently enlarge my box of tricks. I could not say that I have a preferred system but on of the coolest things I saw at the Buzz is yoyoman's SRT system with DdRT installed at the tail ready to use. With this system you can benefit from the pros of both worlds and even in combination. Therefore I like it very much.
 
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