This is the Akimbo

having gone the kickstarter route I can say with certainty that Mark B misses the hours and hours and x amount of prototypes and financial stress and time that goes into development before even considering "kickstarter". You can't go to kickstarter with an idea only. I really don't see how skipping kickstarter and going straight to DMM with an idea on a piece of paper makes too much of a difference except you get more field experience and more feedback from potential buyers by allowing the market to participate.. I also know that the kickstarter cost was a hundred dollars less than the market version in the case of the rope runner and the kickstarter cost had nothing to do with the final cost. I enjoy most of Marks Blogs and read them regularly but I don't quite get the point he was trying to make with this piece
 
other than the rope runner and the akimbo, are there other tree related products that have gone the "kickstarter" route? I must have missed them.
 
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There was an electric assender on Kickstarter not long ago. I believe it wasn’t designed or primarily intended for tree climbing but they were marketing it to tree guys.
 
that Ronin thing does look pretty awesome. Would love to get my hands on one. Maybe Mark was referring to product development in general. Either way, the kickstarter concept as a tool for product development is something to be celebrated. Im not sure I used it to its full potential but Im glad I did it. Financially, I came out even in the kickstarter campaign... maybe even a loss. In terms of getting a product into peoples hands and getting their response to it was invaluable.
 
treebing said:
having gone the kickstarter route I can say with certainty that Mark B misses the hours and hours and x amount of prototypes and financial stress and time that goes into development before even considering "kickstarter". You can't go to kickstarter with an idea only. I really don't see how skipping kickstarter and going straight to DMM with an idea on a piece of paper makes too much of a difference except you get more field experience and more feedback from potential buyers by allowing the market to participate.. I also know that the kickstarter cost was a hundred dollars less than the market version in the case of the rope runner and the kickstarter cost had nothing to do with the final cost. I enjoy most of Marks Blogs and read them regularly but I don't quite get the point he was trying to make with this piece
Click to expand...

So going back to reread when I am more awake...

For some reason the arguments against crowd funding didn't jump out at me the first time. I liked the creative process the hitchclimber went through, and that German predecessor to the rope wrench in the other article was old school cool.

I do see several flaws in Marks assumptions about crowd funding, watching the Akimbo process happen, I saw a long struggle and a lot of build cycles with limited finances before crowd funding was even considered. I don't think "all the money up front" was ever the situation.

As for reduced motivation when using "other people's money" if you go back and watch the early Akimbo videos, the change in Jaime's stress level was exactly the opposite. In the first video I see someone saying "hey guys look at this cool exciting thing I've been working on", after the crowd funding I could clearly see this was a guy who felt the weight of the trust placed in him, and a determination to deliver something useful to the community. Even accounting for a new baby in the middle of that (congrats!), the stress level change was obvious. I was not around when you went through this process Kevin, but I would imagine it was not vacation time when those limited funds allowed your project to move to the next step either.

My point is - the evidence of crowd funding being a bad thing doesn't seem to exist in most cases. This likely means that the animosity towards it in the blog may be coming from a world view, that people in general are looking for a free handout, or that getting help from a group is somehow cheating. I just don't buy into that logic.

Thank you to the innovators who donate their brains, hands, and time to create. Thank you to the donors that trust a little hard earned cash to strangers. Thank you to the testers that will hang out of a tree on something with no stamp on it yet. And thank you to this forum of people brave enough to throw out ridiculous ideas and let strangers chew them up, add to them, and together come up with something genius in the end. This is how we win.
:laola:
 
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FreeFallin said:
So going back to reread when I am more awake...

For some reason the arguments against crowd funding didn't jump out at me the first time. I liked the creative process the hitchclimber went through, and that German predecessor to the rope wrench in the other article was old school cool.

I do see several flaws in Marks assumptions about crowd funding, watching the Akimbo process happen, I saw a long struggle and a lot of build cycles with limited finances before crowd funding was even considered. I don't think "all the money up front" was ever the situation.

As for reduced motivation when using "other people's money" if you go back and watch the early Akimbo videos, the change in Jaime's stress level was exactly the opposite. In the first video I see someone saying "hey guys look at this cool exciting thing I've been working on", after the crowd funding I could clearly see this was a guy who felt the weight of the trust placed in him, and a determination to deliver something useful to the community. Even accounting for a new baby in the middle of that (congrats!), the stress level change was obvious. I was not around when you went through this process Kevin, but I would imagine it was not vacation time when those limited funds allowed your project to move to the next step either.

My point is - the evidence of crowd funding being a bad thing doesn't seem to exist in most cases. This likely means that the animosity towards it in the blog may be coming from a world view, that people in general are looking for a free handout, or that getting help from a group is somehow cheating. I just don't buy into that logic.

Thank you to the innovators who donate their brains, hands, and time to create. Thank you to the donors that trust a little hard earned cash to strangers. Thank you to the testers that will hang out of a tree on something with no stamp on it yet. And thank you to this forum of people brave enough to throw out ridiculous ideas and let strangers chew them up, add to them, and together come up with something genius in the end. This is how we win.
:laola:
Click to expand...

Great post.

I haven't read the article (s) that may be critical of crowd funding. I will say however that those in our arborist community that are inventors and innovators are putting in so much time, money, heart and soul that any small amount I and others throw in the pot to help out a bit is like us risking one thousandth of a percent and them risking all the rest.

I invest my money in hopes of a return. Any intelligent investor knows sometimes (most of the time in the risky money world) you don't get your return. If it smooths the way a little and takes some stress off the creative process win, win.
 
i can only really speak for myself and my (relatively limited) experience with product development a la the Akimbo. i didn't start off with the goal of developing a commercial product at all, i was more or less indulging in my hobby of making things and experimenting with the tools i use at work. had i had a coherent plan from the beginning I'm sure things would have been done different. crowdfunding really helped me get keep the momentum going on the akimbo when i had reached a point where i felt i couldn't carry it any farther design wise or money wise. it helped me pay for the patent, helped me pay for the design consulting and machine work i needed, and it paid for the prototypes i had promised. the publicity probably didn't hurt at all either when it came to negotiating with RE. all that said, it think the biggest boost to the Akimbo by far has been from the people I've met on this site and on the treehouse forum. so many of the design changes and developments have come from suggestions and feedback from you guys. THAT has been the real crowd-sourcing. taking peoples money for a promise freaks me out big time, but it was invaluable for the networking and connections it gave me in the community.
crowdfunding is a bit of a double edged sword too. once its put it out there and people start donating, the clock starts ticking. on the one hand its awesome for marketing and building hype, but it is so hard to keep it slow and take the time to do it right. people start getting angry when it takes over a year to get a batch of prototypes done ;). that's not something you have to worry about so much when your project isn't in the public eye. i can see how easy it would be to rush a product to market after a successful kickstart or what have you, but then ive seen plenty of tools that were not crowdfunded that look like they were rushed to market too. i think it is an invaluable tool to have at our disposal if it is used well and if donors approach it with well tempered expectations.
 
Just so you know, @JMerritt... the Akimbo is the bomb for getting into and out of a tree stand during deer season. Can put up a hang-on stand with no ladder on public land, and don't have to worry about getting to the stand and finding some yahoo hillbilly using it, or worse yet, finding it gone.

Truly, a multi-use tool.
 
JeffGu said:
Just so you know, @JMerritt... the Akimbo is the bomb for getting into and out of a tree stand during deer season. Can put up a hang-on stand with no ladder on public land, and don't have to worry about getting to the stand and finding some yahoo hillbilly using it, or worse yet, finding it gone.

Truly, a multi-use tool.
Click to expand...

I suppose the advantage is you never have to lube the spine on the Akimbo if your hands are always covered with sardine oil and doe urine when you use it. o_O
 
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