Tapered Hinge: Diar(y)rhea of a thread gone wrong and left un-moderated

Use Tapered Hinge against Side Lean?

  • Huh?

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Never

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Hardly

    Votes: 1 3.7%

  • Sometimes

    Votes: 15 55.6%

  • Preferably

    Votes: 7 25.9%

  • Religiously

    Votes: 4 14.8%
  • Total voters
    27
  • Poll closed .
Daniel said:
IN 6 pages, that was your first intelligent post.. Other than that you've been talking smack, which some may find entertaining, but actually does far more damage than you may realize... Notice the scarcity of intelligent experienced voices in the forums these days.. That wasn't always the case. Maybe you haven't been around long enough to know that. They all split cause somewhere along the line they had to deal with people like you, that would rather throw mud than have a considerate thoughtful conversation about tree work.

You and I have a difference of opinion.. and let's be clear, we can only speak from our own experience.. We only know what we know and there's plenty that we don't know, because there is zero well done science to support either perspective. SO a difference of opinion is all it is: and how do you handle it? Disparaging comments, and playground name calling... And what effect does that have? Obviously it fulfills some need for you, but what about others... It's very intimidating and many many people don't have thick enough skin to handle such mean and ugly personalities.

You are basically just the latest version of all the internet assholes that get some kind of kick out of rude and ugly personal attacks... Where is the love bro? Where is the respect for someone that has spent 35 years putting his life at risk to serve the community? Can't we have a difference of opinion without such negative personal attacks? Maybe if you could get past the name calling, we could actually shed some light on the reasons for our differences of opinion, and maybe, just maybe, then we could actually learn something....

Perhaps you don't think you have anything to learn... Perhaps you think you already know everything there is to know about tree work. Maybe you don't want to learn, or need to learn to do what you do.

I WANT TO LEARN ... and guaranteed there are a lot of other people watching these forums that want to learn. And I have learned, which I very much appreciate. It wold just be nice if it wasn't so ugly!

Here is the valuable insight... The bigger the tree, the less effective the tapered hinge is going to be. Makes sense right? So when you think about it, it's actually just common sense... But no one that I know of ever said it before. It's not in Dent's book.... It's not in Jerry's book.. It's not in my article. Its only here on this thread.... Somebody said it... might have even been you....

You also say in the above quote " the tapered hinge is for the most part an unnecessary practice for our needs"... Whereas Dent calls it "simple and effective on pg 98, and "an extremely important part of the faller's technique on page 99.. (we'll get back to that later). Who are you talking about when you say "our needs"... We may both come home with sawdust in our pockets, but your needs and my needs are far different...

Every time I go for a walk in the woods, most of the trees are growing pretty much straight up... That's a much different scenario than in a suburban backyard.. The trees I cut are often leaners, reaching for the light.. Where is that light? it's over the roof, the wires, the fence, the street, the swimming pool etc... All the things I don't want the tree (big or small) to hit!

I've made a living by putting trees on the ground with a chainsaw and pull line that other contractors were going to use a crane on. Side leaners, back leaners, nasty trees, and tight drop zones are big money for me. Learning how to fall these trees has given me a huge competitive advantage.. And the tapered hinge is a big part of it...

P.S. More from Dent coming... you're not going to like it though
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Daniel said:
You're the one changing your story... First you say, Dent's book should be required reading for every pro arb. I clearly show that the hinges you have ferociously criticized come right out of Dent's teachings... Then you call me a coward for "hiding behind Dent's teaching"... HAHA...

Bottom line is you have shown an inability to have a thoughtful conversation, or offer any criticism that would be useful for thought or discussion on the subject. Almost all of what you have done is resort to playground name calling, vile personal attacks and meaningless insults of the photos posted, without any logical argument or substance to back up such abrasive treatment.

You're the worst thing about these forums, because such behavior is so distasteful to many that they simply leave, and the playground belongs to the bullies... It's an ugly aspect of human nature and probably the biggest threat to the survival of our species.[/QUOTE
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Daniel said:
@rico

This is a very effective notch, much more than adequate to do the job. Once again you criticize without substance... and not surprisingly, you don't know what you are looking at... you call it a "fucked undercut", but have no explanation of what is wrong with the cut, what could have been improved or done differently.. so there is nothing to learn from or respond to. Just trash talk with no substance.... That's you!

On the other hand there is something that may help others learn from that cut... the 28" bar was shorter than the notch by about 4". I could have moved the bucket around the far side to finish that side of the notch, but I didn't need to... I used the plate cut, intentionally high to open up a line of sight to the far corner of the notch and whittle it out with the tip of the bar. Maybe a west coast faller doesn't need the line of sight, and can match those face cuts blind. I can't and I don't know any arbs that can, nor have I ever seen any videos of it being done on a conventional or open face. so I use this method to ensure that there is no bypass in the face cuts.

I do it because it works, not because it's pretty.... there wasn't as much height to the hinge fibers on the far side of the notch, so while cleaning out the far corner, I scored the upper angled cut of the face with a couple little surface kerf cuts, to effectively create some height to the front of the hinge on that side. This really wasn't necessary, but it was easy enough... Maybe two scored kerf cuts are what you are seeing that you have such a foul attitude towards..

This is basically a short bar technique that can be used to cut a clean notch without moving to the far side of the tree... One of the things I like about it is that is reliable and easy to visually check, so it can be trusted with your life when you are in the tree... Many times there isn't enough reach to get tot he other side of the tree with the bucket.. Other times it's just faster to do a quick clean out than move around the tree...

To a west coast faller like Pat Lacey, who can match his undercuts perfectly, on a 4' Humboldt, with a short bar, this must look like a slow and clumsy method. Realistically though, the vast majority of arbs will never get the training or experience to develop those kind of saw skills.. This works well enough and is easy enough to be taught to a newbie.


View attachment 55540View attachment 55541View attachment 55542View attachment 55543
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Daniel how about the big poplar tree that you put perfectly between the opening of the fence down the hill from garithill in Rosemont people would never believe it would be possible it they didn’t see it with there our eyes
 
Just when I thought it couldn't get any better, I found this lovely example from Daniel. Possibly the worst attempt at an undercut I have ever seen in my life, and I've seen some beauties!
Friends don't let friends make cuts like this, my friends. EVER!

short bar bisect.webp

A recent Swingdude quote seemed very appropriate here- "never tell someone you know how to do something you really don't know how to do"
 
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Look like little dogs. Not sure.

Doesn't help saw positioning to aim kerfs. I upgraded my Ms 261 dogs before leaving the store.

If you want to double-cut wide felling cuts from spurs, Dogs help.

Full wrap handles are like 4wd, you can get by without, but they pay themselves off over time.

I'm noticeably slower with a half wrap (Ms 261, and a 576xp from treebay), like driving in snow in 2wd, a skilled operator will still get there, but slower and sketchier.

I cut my teeth on half-wrap, btw.



Sam!
 
southsoundtree said:
Look like little dogs. Not sure.

Doesn't help saw positioning to aim kerfs. I upgraded my Ms 261 dogs before leaving the store.

If you want to double-cut wide felling cuts from spurs, Dogs help.

Full wrap handles are like 4wd, you can get by without, but they pay themselves off over time.

I'm noticeably slower with a half wrap (Ms 261, and a 576xp from treebay), like driving in snow in 2wd, a skilled operator will still get there, but slower and sketchier.

I cut my teeth on half-wrap, btw.



Sam!
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Great post southsound. Big dawgs and full wraps are a must in my world. Couldn’t live without either.
 
rico said:
Nope. What I found to be some racist & homophobic remarks unchecked, so I burned that bridge to the ground. Wasn't my cup o tea.
That being said, I heard about Butch, and I'm sending him good thoughts, and best wishes as he begins what will no doubt be a tough fight.
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Racist remarks similar to this?:

Careful, now the survival of our species depends on another white, self proclaimed expert, dude..
 
I believe that was a statement by Evo. I think Evo (a white dude?) was giving Daniel ( a white dude) a hard time about posing as a self appointed expert on the subject of falling trees. Maybe it was a bigger commentary on the current state of our country right now, but you would have to ask him to be sure. I certainly don’t see any racism in it, and I’m surprised anyone would.
 
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rico said:
I believe that was a statement by Evo. I think Evo (a white dude?) was giving Daniel ( a white dude) a hard time about posing as a self appointed expert on the subject of falling trees. Maybe it was a bigger commentary on the current state of our country right now, but you would have to ask him to be sure. I certainly don’t see any racism in it, and I’m surprised anyone would.
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Yep, it was Evo. What's the point of bringing race into it at all, regardless of what color anyone involved is? If he mentioned anything but white, the pc police would be tossing a fit. That's the sad current state of our country right now.
 
Brian55 said:
Yep, it was Evo. What's the point of bringing race into it at all, regardless of what color anyone involved is? If he mentioned anything but white, the pc police would be tossing a fit. That's the sad current state of our country right now.
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Yo....you just stepped into the party. This all you got. Tighten up it can get hot in here....pull those panties out big fella....oh yeah welcome to da buzz and all dat....
 
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