Switching between SRS & MRS....

[Gary M.]

Hanging a DRT rope off a base tied SRT line was a competition trick where on hoisting the DRT line up it automatically isolated the DRT line, eliminating the time wasted isolating a normally installed DRT line.

I did not know that. I pretty much only climb SRS right now. I am not a professional climber, but climb to take care of my own trees and for recreation. I am fairly new, have only been climbing for about 5 years.

So far, I'm not really seeing any advantages to MRS for me. I typically just throw in with a canopy tie, go straight up and straight back down SRS. If I can't isolate, I will use a base tie SRS. Limb walking is not my forte. I'd rather just move my tie in to a different location, although I have limb walked/redirected a little bit when it was easy/safe and made sense.

Having to isolate the tie in and install a friction saver are the two main reasons I don't use MRS. Most of the trees I work on are live and I don't want the wear and tear on either the trees or the rope. So ease of installation offered by the "inline anchor" as Taylor calls it appeals to me.

Do you normally prefer a pulley for MRS?

Have never tried it with any kind of pulley, so don't know. So far, all I've ever used is a R and R friction saver and it seems to work well, but as mentioned, it's more of a pain to install/remove than just setting a single rope with base tie (with the MRS suspended from the rope).

I'd clove hitch the biner to guarantee orientation. Leaving that butterfly's open eye out of the equation is better.

What about just using a "regular" DMM Revolver? The way those are made, it seems it would be near impossible for it to be cross-loaded. Still has the little mini pulley at the bottom but probably would give a little more friction than the Revolver Rig.

 

[southsoundtree]

Revolver sheaves are too small, ime. I use a Petzl pulley biner f 3:1 limb walks and hauling up a saw.


I think some people prefer some friction more than a pulley friction.

Girth hitch a ring???

 

[Matias]

Revolver sheaves are too small, ime. I use a Petzl pulley biner f 3:1 limb walks and hauling up a saw.


I think some people prefer some friction more than a pulley friction.

Girth hitch a ring???

ring on a prusik is back to the og secret weapon. I really wanna try a one way pulley on MRS. That sounds nice.

 

[ghostice]

Back to descending on a hitch - never by itself, but you can use a round top biner and a ring on say your leg loop or a flatter topped biner and a munter to add more friction for descent. Either is quick. I've talked earlier about the biner/munter in winter to strip frost/ ice/ snow/ glop off the rope(s) before it hits your knot/ ATC whatever. But you'll probably find that with just a hitch of any kind, if you stop comin' down along the way, it'll stand a good chance of seizing up and then have fun getting going again.

 

[pcpTR33]

ring on a prusik is back to the og secret weapon. I really wanna try a one way pulley on MRS. That sounds nice.

ClimbingArborist Dan did a video with the Petzl 1LD as a friction saver for a minute looked just as smooth as the eject but without the fancy engineering.

 

[pcpTR33]

Back to descending on a hitch - never by itself, but you can use a round top biner and a ring on say your leg loop or a flatter topped biner and a munter to add more friction for descent. Either is quick. I've talked earlier about the biner/munter in winter to strip frost/ ice/ snow/ glop off the rope(s) before it hits your knot/ ATC whatever. But you'll probably find that with just a hitch of any kind, if you stop comin' down along the way, it'll stand a good chance of seizing up and then have fun getting going again.

Anyone on a mechanical should be familiar with the munter in my opinion, it’s a no nonsense fool proof way to get down in case the device fails or slips either from failure or weather conditions (I had a zigzag start slipping from ice building on the line).

 

[southsoundtree]

Might help with pitch spots???

 

[ghostice]

Might help with pitch spots???

Or sometimes I still carry up my good old Uni - no mods - just for coming down.
Gettin stuck on a hitch is one reason I often still carry up the ZZ and leather cambium saver to try and stay away from sap as much as possible for the down. Going back into older stuff, Richard Mumford had a video somewhere showing a split/ modded Weaver leather cambium saver he attached velcro closures to. Still have my own hand stitched jobby cuz it's now mid line attachable which comes in handy sometimes.

 

[Gary M.]

Girth hitch a ring???

Like this?

Definitely seems to work. I know this is weird, but I have this irrational fear of hanging on a prusik like that. That's part of what I didn't like the original idea of the Pinto prusik. I know, you are hanging on one at the hitch anyway, that's why I say it's irrational, but still....

There seems to be some resistance to the idea of hanging off an alpine butterfly. Can someone expand on why this is a bad idea? It seems like it would be safe, i.e., can't come undone and I don't think it would tighten up so much that you couldn't untie it. What am I missing?

Here is the regular revolver on there. I don't see how that could get cross-loaded. I tried moving the ropes around inside there, and it always pops back to upright position.

If having the gate come open is the issue, they also make a 4-way locking version of this (and the Revolver Rig as well).

If lack of friction with any kind of a pulley is a problem I might not even be able to use any of the pulley options, all I can do is give it a try. But I don't want to even think about trying any of the pulleys until I know I have a "safe" way to hang one on there.

 

[Brocky]

Overhand on a bight below the friction hitch was used mostly back in the day, with a carabiner in the loop.

Low friction ring could go in the Butterfly, or a ready made Secret Weapon is the Cric.

 

[Matias]

Overhand on a bight below the friction hitch was used mostly back in the day, with a carabiner in the loop.

Low friction ring could go in the Butterfly, or a ready made Secret Weapon is the Cric.
View attachment 102714

I knew there had to be a creative way to cinch an X-ring in there! I haven't gotten a cric yet, so it hadn't occurred to me, but does it do the one way spin thing as well?

 

[Bart_]

I wouldn't run the DRT rope through the Petzl openable ring just on the lottery chance the spacer gets aligned, spun by the rope and spins the screw inside. I know, lottery ticket odds but the ring was designed for a saddle without said motion.

 

[Brocky]

Just a free running sheave on the Cric.

The tab on the spacer of the Ring Open would need to break before it could spin, but one of their rubber stoppers slide over it would keep it isolated.

 

[Bart_]

Point taken. Been a long time since I've opened a Petzl ring. Also the rings I have are OG with a different size and shape of spacer for webbing (bridge).

edit - forget my worry warting. If you compare the beef on the ring to a carabiner and substitute a high grade loctited screw for the the engagement tab on a biner gate, plus 23 kN testing, and the anti-rotation tab, the ring's looking pretty good.

 

[Njdelaney]

Overhand on a bight below the friction hitch was used mostly back in the day, with a carabiner in the loop.

Low friction ring could go in the Butterfly, or a ready made Secret Weapon is the Cric.
View attachment 102714

I suppose you could also run the SRT leg tied thru the hole of the x-ring and the DRT rope around the outside like a pulley. Push the butterfly loop thru the hole and girth hitch that baby. Maybe more secure?

 

[ghostice]

I wouldn't run the DRT rope through the Petzl openable ring just on the lottery chance the spacer gets aligned, spun by the rope and spins the screw inside. I know, lottery ticket odds but the ring was designed for a saddle without said motion.

I've just used a DMM ring and "Bunny ear alpine"? Basically a big loop with the ring on it. It gets rid of rope on rope friction at the loop when yankin' stuff down (esp. with any redirect(s) ).

 

[southsoundtree]

I have wondered about simply girth- hitching a ring on a butterfly's loop.

 

[Matias]

I have wondered about simply girth- hitching a ring on a butterfly's loop.

There is definitely a chance that you end up with some rope on rope action on retrieval after some jostling, more so with stiff ropes. I have looked at that idea, but it looked unstable giving it a few shakes.

 

[Gary M.]

Really like the double alpine butterfly with captured ring, thanks for mentioning that. I don't see any way that can come apart short of component failure.

I got this prusik ring off my Rope Logic adjustable friction saver that would also work, I think.

This one may be sketch, don't know - Pinto captured with a biner. Maybe with a DMM Durolock biner?
Here is another Taylor Hamel video discussing the Pinto as an inline anchor.

 

[Evo]

Back when I was playing around with a secret weapon, it was just a 3/8 tenex hitch cord with one eye open and the other a small ring. The open eye had a DMM revolver but I’d probably use the petzl equivalent today.

I used the SRT leg as ascent with a pre rigged DdRT system in the secret weapon, ascending with Jumar style toothed devices. The pre rigged DdRT was my backup for the toothed ascenders.

Once I got to where I needed to go I’d just abandon the ascenders and work off the DdRT system. If I wanted to leave the static line I’d just retrieve it remotely as I used just 4-5 wraps for the secret weapon with no braids or anything fancy. This would sometimes double as a friction saver later in the climb as needed/wanted.

One old rule that I’m not sure has been forgotten is to always back up with a hitch ABOVE a toothed ascender. I think some of our new mechanicals had left that old dogma behind, I do think abandoning the toothed ascender is a viable stopper in leu of a line spike knot etc..

Even further back we would ascend on a static false crotch with opposite and opposed carabiners.
I would not use the cric to hang a DdRT system even with a spiked stopper, ditto with even ribbed cammed devices… Old adage is a ‘mechanical’ must always be backed up with a hitch or another mechanical.. That was when toothed or ribbed cams were the only real options.