swing dutchman

Daniel

Daniel

Carpal tunnel level member
Location
Suburban Philadelphia (Wayne)
There is some debate as to what constitutes a swing dutchman

Doug Dent's book IMO should be the reference manual for the subject.
pg 110 " many variations occur in the amount of holding wood severed and the position of the bar. Some variations are shown in Illustration 59.... The holding wood on the lean side should be severed prior to the final back cutting step."

According to Dent any cut where the far side of the hinge is removed is a swing dutchman. How much of the hinge and on what angle the back cut is made may vary significantly.

The photo of this tulip stump shows a good example which looks like the illustrations on pg 110. One side of the hinge is completely cut. The remaining holding wood is positioned to have better leverage to hold against side lean than a straight hinge with the same total amount of fibers. Judging by the amount of fiber pull (whiskers) on this stump, it looks as though the hinge had good control until the face closed.

There is also a description of the swing dutchman on the OSHA website, which differs significantly from Dent. Given a choice between Doug Dent and some government bureaucrat, I'll take Dent's definition.

eTool : Logging | Occupational Safety and Health Administration

www.osha.gov www.osha.gov
20160408_162438.jpg
 
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pg 110 "Swing Dutchman alters holding wood in a drastic manner. This technique can BEST be explained by the following example." Illustration 58

NOTE: in that example, he does take out the far side of the hinge after making the face and before starting the back cut, but that does not mean that is the only way to make the cut.

Dent continues on pg 111. "many variations occur in the amount of holding wood severed and the positioning of the bar. SOME of these variations are shown in Illustration 59. " Note the word "some" here indicates there are other methods for making the cut

pg 111. "Regardless of the amount of holding wood severed, the intention is the same. The holding wood on the lean side should be severed prior to the final backcutting step." Note he doesn't say prior to starting the backcut.

pg 111 "As the final backcut proceeds, the tree will naturally move in the direction of the side lean force" Note: the mention of a final backcut indicates that an initial backcut may have been used

pg 113 "The secret of the swing dutchman is not in the technique involved, but in determining when and how much of the remaining holding wood should be cut" Note: IMO when he says "the technique involved" he means how the cut is made, or the order of the cuts.

He is clearly saying here that what matters is how much of the side of the hinge is taken out and not how it is taken out. I've used the cut a lot (as Rico will show you) both on the ground and at height and would agree with Dent. It's not how the cut was made that counts, but how the final hinge is configured.
 
I am happy to continue the discussion. Here is my question. If you taper the hinge with your backcut but there is no dutchmen in the notch is that still a swinging dutchmen? In Pat's video he did taper the hinge, we agree, but had no dutchmen in the notch just a sizwheel. Wouldnt that be a sizwheel with a tapered hinge. In Dent's diagrams it shows a dutchmen in the notch. Simply does a swinging dutchmen require a dutchmen in the notch? My point is a tapered hinge without a dutchmen is not a swing dutchmen rather a tapered hinge.
 
So I reviewed your photos labelled tapered hinge, these seem to make my point. If not why arent they labelled swinging dutchmen?
 
The swing Dutchman refers to removing a portion of the side of the hinge. It does not matter if that portion of the hinge is removed when the notch is being made, or during the back cut. It is the amount and placement of the hinge wood removed that is critical to the cut.

The yellow highlighted areas in Dent's Illustrations show the shape of the final holding wood of the hinge.20200217_115941.webp
 
The term Dutchman is pretty universally recognized in our industry as the bypass/kerf left with a mismatched undercut...It is this bypass/kerf/dutchman which makes a swinging dutchman function. Now you are claiming the rest of the world is wrong, and you are miraculously doing a swing dutchman without the dutchman part. Kinda like a quesadilla without the quesa. A hot fudge sunday without the ice cream and the hot fudge. Turkey dinner without the turkey.....A prostrate exam without the finger up you ass. A rectal exam without the rectum......It's can't be done.

You conflation of the terms swinging dutchman and a tapered hinge is laughable....
 
Just read the book ... Dent is clear and so AM I.

It doesn't matter to me what you or 50 other people say here, or anywhere else. Dent is the original and definitive source on the matter. His writing and illustrations are clear.

ps.. its not a "swinging" Dutchman. it's a swing Dutchman. How much brain damage do you have?
 
Well the old timers I grew up falling timber and logging with always called it a Swinging Dutchy Daniel....BTW, how many years did you spend working in the woods with pro fallers buddy? By the looks of your stumps and cuts my guess would be not a single fucking day.......

Its also clear that you can't have a dutchman without a dutchman.....
 
Again I think we need a reminder of who we are arguing with here OwScott..

dry tulip top plunge.webp20181124_143518.webp
Daniel's awesome sawmanship on full display, and the ensuing smashed play structure. Fucker went right where the undercut was sighted. Go figure?
 
So just for clarification, who put this Dent character up on a cross for us all to bow down to? Why must we all use his definitions, terms or other such?
All this is getting really fucken old. And with all due respect Daniel, you are the perpetrator by self righteousness dribbles of gas you keep spittling on to this fire. I don’t believe you’re looking for a conversation about any of this other than ‘being the first’ to publish and pissing your sent all over the industry.
 
rico said:
Well the old timers I grew up falling timber and logging with always called it a Swinging Dutchy Daniel....BTW, how many years did you spend working in the woods with pro fallers buddy? By the looks of your stumps and cuts my guess would be not a single fucking day.......

Its also clear that you can't have a dutchman without a dutchman.....
Click to expand...
Swing swinging same difference. In Dent's diagrams it looks like he cuts a dutchmen in the notch everytime. If tapering a hinge with the backcut only as Daniel is saying constitutes a swinging dutchmen why is he calling it a tapered hinge in the photos. If this was the case everytime we cut a tapered hinge without a dutchmen then we would just call it a swinging dutchmen therefore the term tapered hinge wouldnt even be used, but his photos are labelled tapered hinge. This makes no sense.
 
rico said:
Well the old timers I grew up falling timber and logging with always called it a Swinging Dutchy
Click to expand...
All the guys I have cut timber with call it a swinging Dutchman. Or a Dutchman. But never heard it called a swing Dutchman. And I agree with you Rico, it has no place in residential use. I’ve used it many hundreds of times in the woods, sometimes it works amazingly well, other times it doesn’t do shit.
 
chiselbit said:
All the guys I have cut timber with call it a swinging Dutchman. Or a Dutchman. But never heard it called a swing Dutchman. And I agree with you Rico, it has no place in residential use. I’ve used it many hundreds of times in the woods, sometimes it works amazingly well, other times it doesn’t do shit.
Click to expand...
Can you have a swinging dutchmen without a dutchmen?
 
I'll keep cutting trees the way I see fit.

turned this gum close to 45 degrees from the side lean. it had side weight too.

center plunge to allow more holding on the tension side of the hinge, and cut out all but a small post on the compression side, to keep it from sitting down on the kerf.

the tree was leanin well to the right of the codominant walnut in the background, will all the limb weight hanging right as the left side's top had blown out in the storm
1596431425448.png
 
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