Support or remove?

Perhaps we can just let this thread develop into a discussion of how we measure and compare risk for our clients and for ourselves.....not sure the revolver analogy is apt since for me presenting assessed tree risk entails encouraging the client to consider what levels of risk are acceptable to them and why..and then how the assessed tree risk fits into that picture..along with all the options of mitigating or controlling the specific risk.

In some countries there is a defined measure of acceptable risk...in the UK for example 1/10,000 is one measure of the limit of acceptable risk (HSE 1996), I quess you could put that into your gun analogy but then you'd have to incorporate all the daily exposures to risks far greater than that which clients willingly accept, perhaps its akin to different coloured metal jackets on the cartridges in your revolver and the green tree coloured ones disturb them more than the other colours which cause no reflection on behaviour choices at all..fact is in the analogy every live round has the potential to kill.

I have moved this over to the other thread http://www.treebuzz.com/forum/showflat.p...=true#Post95267 where mdvaden has begun to discuss this in greater detail.
 
Historic cemetary, historic gravestones, these are very important to some people and as such represent an important target.
 
your bullet in the chamber argument would then mean that we cut down every tree. Thats a terrible way to look at hazards in my opinion. poor analogy.
there is a calculatable risk every time i start my saw in a tree, or for that matter cross the street. But I do it.

I wouldnt put a gun to my head ever, even if i absolutely knew there were no bullets in it whatsoever. Thats just not my thing, im just not into it. There are a lot of people in this world who do play that game though. it even has a name. To each his own.

the hazardous game I like to play is walk through forests and climb around in trees.

this is definitly all hypothetical, as you cant get a feel for the tree, or the cemetary, or very much at all from the picture. I do kill trees all the time for being dangerous. Sometimes I kill em for being annoying.

Really, there are a lot of trees out there, a lot of them are hazards, its just another risk in the world that we live in. I would much rather a world with hazardous trees than every single hazard taken care of. Every tree is going to fall if it doesnt get cut down first. A lot of times, it is safer to let a tree fall on its own because it doesnt involve any dumbbutts operating sharp objects at altitude. I have told that to customers as well, "just dont stand underneath it when it falls."

The risk factor is such that it is very unlikely anyone would be under that tree when it came over, and when it does come over its breakage potential is minimal. From the picture, That tree just doesnt give me a very dangerous feel to it no matter how rotten it is. With a brace of some sort it would be even less dangerous. who knows though, Guy could have posted any old picture and spawned this same debate probably. What is acceptable risk.

While in college, in 1998, two classmates of mine went out to in-and-out. It had been raining hard that year as it was el nino. They stopped at a stop sign at the entrance to the college when a 4 foot diameter eukalyptus came over. It took them 4 hours to recover the bodies.

This tragedy resulted in a backlash against eukalyptus trees that was most definitly overboard. Revenge had to be taken. All eukalyptus were hazardous because of their shallow root system etc. its true that a euk is more dangerous than most trees. no doubt about it. awesome trees though. It reminded me of the current battle against terrorism. We get so focused on one thing that we destroy everything in our path trying to deal with just another daily risk. Thus making the world even hotter and meaner.
 
[ QUOTE ]
I would much rather a world with hazardous trees than every single hazard taken care of.

[/ QUOTE ]I'd like every urban tree hazard taken care of by responsible management to lower the risk to a reasonably acceptable level. Which sometimes means removal is necessary but most often means some more conservative action.

I find the military invasion and euc analogies compelling. Fearmongering and reactionary, with reason set aside, going for the gut while disabling the brain.

I drove through south Georgia Tuesday morning on I-95, where machines were removing all the trees, all the plants along the corridor. Someone told me that was to prevent fires jumping the road.
Think about air, water, wildlife, aesthetic values etc., constant, through time, infinite.
Think about the use of fossil fuels and human and financial capital it will cost to mow those areas, forever.
Then think about the slim chance that one day a fire on one side may jump to the other side.

Did Wolfowitz hire on with GADOT? Does Halliburton have the mowing contract?
 
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I find the military invasion and euc analogies compelling. Fearmongering and reactionary, with reason set aside, going for the gut while disabling the brain.

[/ QUOTE ]

Interesting




[ QUOTE ]

I drove through south Georgia Tuesday morning on I-95, where machines were removing all the trees, all the plants along the corridor. Someone told me that was to prevent fires jumping the road.
Think about air, water, wildlife, aesthetic values etc., constant, through time, infinite.
Think about the use of fossil fuels and human and financial capital it will cost to mow those areas, forever.
Then think about the slim chance that one day a fire on one side may jump to the other side.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thought provoking





[ QUOTE ]
Does Halliburton have the mowing contract?

[/ QUOTE ]

Just plain silly
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I would much rather a world with hazardous trees than every single hazard taken care of.

[/ QUOTE ]I'd like every urban tree hazard taken care of by responsible management to lower the risk to a reasonably acceptable level. Which sometimes means removal is necessary but most often means some more conservative action.

I find the military invasion and euc analogies compelling. Fearmongering and reactionary, with reason set aside, going for the gut while disabling the brain.

I drove through south Georgia Tuesday morning on I-95, where machines were removing all the trees, all the plants along the corridor. Someone told me that was to prevent fires jumping the road.
Think about air, water, wildlife, aesthetic values etc., constant, through time, infinite.
Think about the use of fossil fuels and human and financial capital it will cost to mow those areas, forever.
Then think about the slim chance that one day a fire on one side may jump to the other side.

Did Wolfowitz hire on with GADOT? Does Halliburton have the mowing contract?

[/ QUOTE ]

Its been done here a few times, and I just didn't see how fire was going to jump from green big leaf maples to green big leaf maples.

In Portland, a homeowner of a mansion of a house was going to get "creamed" with a fine for leveling about 100 mid-size big leaf maples around his home.

... Protected area...

He hire a "tree service" to whack them, and called me for an arborist report that the trees were a fire hazard anyway.

I asked him "how am I going to save your behind if those lush green maples are not a hazard like Douglas fir might be?"

One of the easier people to decline aid to.

100 strong healthy trees gone - a 150' swath around 3 sides.
hope the fine was adjusted accordingly.
 
Just tonight, I may have talked us out of a removal job, by (maybe) convincing a client that he really shouldn't be so afraid of his American Elm hurting his house. Nice, soft bending tips probably would be all that hit the roof; the butts would almost certainly not break off. He had long ago made up his mind that it had to go,partially based on the assumption that it would crush his house some day.

A bullet in a chamber? Maybe one in 5,000 that someone would be under it when a top breaks. Not a heavily travelled part of the yard.
 
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