Suddenly SRT basal anchors EVERYWHERE!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry but can't seem to find a description or pic of the ring to ring srt set up. Is it a TIP or a redirect?
I have been working on RW SRT climbing for only 3 months or so. Just did a Ddrt climb, and hands down srt has some definite efficient advantages. I have been choking off the TIP with a captive eye carabiner and a pulley and use a separate line as a retrieval line. It works but limits the amount of redirects as it is tough to retrieve through multiple unions.
I have tried base anchoring. It is way simpler. It just bothers me having the tie off line exposed to dangers.
Again link to ring to ring srt.
 
Thanks I am on my way to try it out. Though I dreamed of a variation of it. Since I have 200 ft of line, pull what I need to climb with, and use a stopper not and carabiner to dead end. This will leave my tail as a retrieval side.
 
Re: Suddenly SRT basil anchors EVERYWHERE!!!!!!!!!!!

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I saw John Ball speak about aerial rescue and he brought up some interesting points. To sum it up he said unless someone is seriously bleeding up in a tree we have to be very careful how we get them down. Speed isn't the top priority. In a SRT rescue were a climber can be lowered from the ground the climber is rarely in a spot were they can be lowered directly to the ground. There is usually limbs in the way and the victim is in danger of hitting into every limb on the way down. Which is very bad in the case of a head or neck injury.

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I think the 'rescue from the ground' benefit of a base anchor is mostly nonsense. Aside from hitting limbs and becomming inverted there is also the fact that the climber is most likely going to have a lanyard anchor. The base anchor is more a hazard than a solution to easy rescue.

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Dan. How many years have you been climbing 100% SRT?
 
Re: Suddenly SRT basil anchors EVERYWHERE!!!!!!!!!!!

Does anyone have any objections to this basal anchor tieoff method?
p1010238v.jpg

By sprung22 at 2012-02-26
 
Re: Suddenly SRT basil anchors EVERYWHERE!!!!!!!!!!!

I started using a lowerable basal tie system mainly for the purpose of rescue during ascent on mechanical asender's where I would not be able to quickly descend. For this purpose the system would have to be quick to put to use and you would have to have a vigilant groundie essentially like climbing on belay. If the system is all locked off and backed up and your groundie was off sharpening a saw you would probably be able to switch over to your f8 before they could get to and operate the system. That's a lot of bee stings.
I have used a RIG with just a twisted half hitch around the top clipped back to the anchor quite a bit. Unclip, pull tail and your on belay. I also have my groundie operate the system after I am only a few feet up to make sure they're comfortable with it. I expect them to be paying attention until I get switched over. If I'm not worried about it or there is no one there I trust, I have sometimes just choked the end of my line to the base as high as I could reach. Even then if a skilled person needed to lower you, they could just attach another system to your line. At least that way no amatuer passer by will try and mess with a system they're not familiar with. And the line seems a bit more out of harms way.
I think if you're using a system that does not have a release to stop function you definitely should have a prussic or something above it but I don't think it's necessary if you're using a RIG or GRI GRI or other release to stop device.
 
Re: Suddenly SRT basil anchors EVERYWHERE!!!!!!!!!!!

I have recently switched to a Gri Gri at the base and started utilizing the RIG to work the tree after ascent. I can understand the thinking behind redundant backups on the basal anchor system if you are going to work secret weapon or srt on it. Although I don't think the anchor system being damaged is any more likely than the skinny single line above it.
I also wouldn't want to lose the safety of the original purpose to lower quickly during ascent. I think in most cases I would want to create a removable top tie in point after ascent.
countryboypa31, I like your setup a lot I could see myself implementing something like that. although I think I would stick with the twisted half hitch, if the system creeps in the device you wouldn't be able to release the lock off below it.
great thread, lots of sweet ideas ...... Thanks for sharing :)
 
Re: Suddenly SRT basil anchors EVERYWHERE!!!!!!!!!!!

At some point backups and redundancies can become problematic. What seems like a good idea in the calm of day can become a mess, and unsafe, during a real rescue.

When I see setups like Steve's I see a mess waiting to happen when an emergency strikes. First, the lowest anchor has to be untied. Then, the several cleatings have to be unwrapped. Followed by unwrapping on the barrel of the portie. At any one of these systems the anxiety level is rising...and time is burning.

There has been many comments about simplicity. In fact, some climbers stayed off SRT using the Unicender because 'its too complicated'. Then I see such over complicated solutions to a base lower. That's inconsistent, at least to me.

I'm using Steve's setup as an example because its right at hand. There are others.

Arbos should spend time investigating how rope rescue personel rig. They do that for a living and have some very good and safe protocols. We all like to sit around and laugh at YouTubes of low skilled treeworkers. I wonder how some of the 'rescue rigging' that we make looks to rescue pros.

There is merit in using a tool like a bollard for rescue though. Most of the groundies already have a good understanding of how to run one if they're rigging already.

Whatever device or system chosen for belay it needs to be simple to use by anyone who might need to do the lowering. Something that I learned from reading about rope rescue was the 'whistle test'. At anytime during the rescue a whistle might be blown. At that moment all of the rescuers let go, hands off everything. If there is movement in the system it might be a fail, there is some amount of slack that is present though so that is accounted for. My concern about using some devices and configurations is that there isn't enough friction or a brake on the lowering line to lock off the victim. This could lead to a disaster :(
 
Re: Suddenly SRT basil anchors EVERYWHERE!!!!!!!!!!!

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I saw John Ball speak about aerial rescue and he brought up some interesting points. To sum it up he said unless someone is seriously bleeding up in a tree we have to be very careful how we get them down. Speed isn't the top priority. <font color="red"> </font>

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I think the 'rescue from the ground' benefit of a base anchor is mostly nonsense. Aside from hitting limbs and becomming inverted there is also the fact that the climber is most likely going to have a lanyard anchor. The base anchor is more a hazard than a solution to easy rescue.

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Dan. How many years have you been climbing 100% SRT?

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I have been accessing trees srt for a little over 15 years then switching to over DbRT. Often I do some trimming on the way up and it has been enough to show me I don't like a ground anchor when a chainsaw is running and parts of the tree are on the way down.
 
Re: Suddenly SRT basil anchors EVERYWHERE!!!!!!!!!!!

Steve, If you're going to use the porty, check out the attachment posted by Norm Hall in this thread. Really great configuration.
OF
 
Re: Suddenly SRT basil anchors EVERYWHERE!!!!!!!!!!!

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Does anyone have any objections to this basal anchor tieoff method?
p1010238y.jpg

By sprung22 at 2012-02-25

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Yes&gt; Too close to the stove when that baby gets cherry red.
 
Re: Suddenly SRT basil anchors EVERYWHERE!!!!!!!!!!!

Nicely done!

Its a bit scarey taking your lanyard off and being lowered isn't it? Whenever I'm in that position I find my hands moving up to lower myself because of years of muscle memory.
 
Re: Suddenly SRT basil anchors EVERYWHERE!!!!!!!!!!!

yeah, I almost did, but if you look at the quick release pin, it isn't spinning like it does when rope is moving thru it :)
 
Re: Suddenly SRT basil anchors EVERYWHERE!!!!!!!!!!!

Great work on the video. Thanks. Your vids are always unbelievably good.

To me, the vid demonstrates the value of having the OPTION, not necessisarily the PLAN, to take someone down from the anchor.

But I gotta say that watching you I had the reaction that Tom D voiced, the operative word being <u>scary</u>. I get nervous thinking that my life is literally in his brake hand. I would be fine with something like a Rig or an I'd, but an F8? I dunno ... I guess it would depend on how badly I was bleeding. Really.

OF
 
Tom,
I went up today to climb on your LRH idea. Worked great but the Munter was a little time consuming to thread through and set properly. But it held virtually all of the girthing tension I could lay into it.

Then I looked down at an ascessory strap on my saddle and the answer hit me like a ton of bricks. I had those pinching rings right in front of me ... !

anchor1.jpg


anchor2.jpg


This sets up in a flash and the rings hold full tension while you run a stopoper up. Perfect. Now even the girthing force is "doubled up".


Thanks,
OF
 
Re: Suddenly SRT basil anchors EVERYWHERE!!!!!!!!!!!

This vid has been up on YouTube for months but I never posted it here. Nothing new, but it does show the "belt buckle" idea in action. I'm wondering if there are applications beyond a basal anchor...

One more thing: when you're laying in the pre-tension, try sharply "snapping" the girth lines at the end. HUGE grip force -- you'll think you can climb a flagpole!


Doubled Up Basal Anchor


Thanks, Nick, I got this trick from your waterline vid. I don't know why it works so well, but it does.


OF
 
Re: Suddenly SRT basil anchors EVERYWHERE!!!!!!!!!!!

Hah! As I was reading your post I though- "hey that's sorta like what I figured out with those water pipe straps!"

This is a cool use of those rings.
 
Re: Suddenly SRT basil anchors EVERYWHERE!!!!!!!!!!!

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Does anyone have any objections to this basal anchor tieoff method?
p1010238v.jpg

By sprung22 at 2012-02-26

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I do. If you need to get lowered, there is tension on the bottom carabiner and there's no way I would be able to disconnect it while the system is weighted. I think leaving the backed up tail slack would make a safer system.

love
nick
 
Re: Suddenly SRT basil anchors EVERYWHERE!!!!!!!!!!!

My biggest problem with the pow used as a basal anchor is when unweighted it pulls a lot of slack into the system.
 
Has this been mentioned before? Lowerable double Blake's hitch with separate cordage. The first one cinches the stem so there is no creep when slack is introduced, using the tail to tie a second so rescue is possible. No hardware required. Anything unsafe?
IMG_20171224_143635.webp
 
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