Strongest Choked configuration?

I am getting old and fat so I am looking forward to reducing my gear weight in tree. I have always used large impact blocks. So a safeblock will be a welcome change.

Haha.. i think we're talking past each other.. my last response should clarify..



Ahh nice man.. give it a shot!
Your basket fid should make things pretty easy as long as the wire doesn't snag threads while passing though. I use something similar, i thread a peice of Techflex through with a wire or regular fid & then insert rope tail into techflex & pull through...(Chinese finger trap)


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20' of Tenex-TEC should give you an ultra-sling with about 8' of useable length... which would be good on wood up to 2.5' diameter. You don't need three times the finished length.

The MBS of the sling will be slightly less than the rated strength of the material, so 3/4" will be about 20,000 lbs. and SWL at 10:1 would be 2000 lbs., 5:1 would be 4000 lbs.

I think the SafeBloc would break before the ultra-sling did, but that's a real good match of sling and device, to my thinking.
 
20' of Tenex-TEC should give you an ultra-sling with about 8' of useable length... which would be good on wood up to 2.5' diameter. You don't need three times the finished length.

The MBS of the sling will be slightly less than the rated strength of the material, so 3/4" will be about 20,000 lbs. and SWL at 10:1 would be 2000 lbs., 5:1 would be 4000 lbs.

I think the SafeBloc would break before the ultra-sling did, but that's a real good match of sling and device, to my thinking.

Oh hey Jeff.. How goes it?

Thanks for the heads up friend!! Yeah I've always thought it's crazy how u can take a 20k MBS & end up with something around 2k SWL.. Is what it is i guess, better to be safe then sorry... or worse... I say it all the time but that Yale Cordage's video of Dynamic VS Static is mind blowing.. Wish they had a better explaination of what's going on with the truck at the end of video.. sounded like Steel Cable.

Anyhow,
I was actually skimming through some stuff last night & stumbled upon some pic page of yours.. i must say, you've got quite the selection of slings.. Interesting ideas too.. I like how you finish them with the chafe guard & heat shrink..

Let me ask you..
I was browsing for some of that Protec Sleeving & everything i found was crazy expensive 3-4 per foot.. Where can i find it cheaper? Or do i just use the TreeStuff version for $.99 pr ft.. & wait forever having it outsourced through Sherrill?

Also, who's your favorite Shrink Manufacturer? I have a few preffered brands but I'm always looking for a better cost/performance factor.

Since you splice on the regular... Have you happen to come up with or come across a percentage ratio of extra cordage needed for burying bulky hollow braids like Tenex or IceTail?
For example.. you got a brummel & after that you want a tail bury of 10in.. as you already know if you just mark your bury's exit 10in down, only a portion of that is going to be buried.. I'm just wondering if there is a percentage ratio i could depend upon instead of actually running it through every time to see how much extra host cordage i will need.. (host as in hosting the bury).
 
I've been having trouble finding the chafe guard stuff, too, and usually just buy it from TreeStuff. No complaints about it, works good. Shrink tube I buy off of Amazon or eBay and I buy so much of it I've given up on trying to remember the brands... I always get the heavy walled, 3:1, adhesive lined stuff, though. I pretty much buy it from whoever has it for the cheapest. I prefer the polyolefin stuff.

I just measure down however long the tail is and then add an inch or two... pull it out there, taper it and milk it back in. I don't think it's critical, you just need to go a little further than the length of the tail you're burying so you don't end up with any of it still hanging outside.

Personally, I like using a 10:1 safety factor for rigging stuff, too, because when you're thinking, "Ok, I need to keep the load, including shock forces, to one ton!" then you almost have to do something really stupid to break any of the rigging, because realistically the gear will handle a 5:1 factor for awhile. But, it won't last long if you actually try to do that. If I accidentally misjudge the weight of a piece, I'm not likely to misjudge it by double. So, I don't break stuff. I'm absolutely not a "push it to the limit" guy. I don't do enough tree work that I can afford to constantly replace broken gear and worn out ropes, so I try to make it last as long as I can. Back in the day, I worked for a guy who broke so many things (both his and other people's) that I'm not sure he ever showed a profit. I put up with it for a couple of years until he tried to push brush into the chipper with a garden rake. That didn't end well. He paid me for the day and the last thing I ever heard him say was, "See you tomorrow." The last thing he ever heard me say was, "The fuck you will."
 
To answer your other question, i wanted to be able use the Safebloc at max SWL if i needed to.. but i think i get what your saying & i was wondering the same myself.. The 2700lb of the Safebloc is going to be superseded by the Tenex-Tec no matter which tie in method i use.. As long as I'm using a big enough Cordage. Idk the #'s off the top of my head, but im pretty sure 3/4 is well beyond..

Overall, point of the thread was to see which of the different tools were the strongest after hearing some conflicting information
Yes that’s precisely my point. The idea of professional rigging in any situation is to never exceed the maximum safe working load in any part of the equipment. In fact when rigging buildings for light shows and hanging trusses, they have specific rules that at first don’t seem to make sense but when you think about it it does. The anchor must exceed any load it can be expected to see by factor of 10. No device shall be attached to anchor that exceeds rated load limit, ie clevace, shackle etc. No ropes or cables shall exceed rated anchor or connector. So in theory they want to see a step down effect from anchor to load. And all the parts serve to protect overloading those below them.
 
Seems like SWL is for longer service life. It will take a beating above the SWL, and the candle that burns twice as bright burns half as long.

Remember, the ratings are for new gear with no physical or uv damage.

I'd like to see some old gear broken.
 
Seems like SWL is for longer service life. It will take a beating above the SWL, and the candle that burns twice as bright burns half as long.

Remember, the ratings are for new gear with no physical or uv damage.

I'd like to see some old gear broken.
ropes are funny that way, damage happens collectively and one day the rope just lets go. I have snapped some big ropes seemingly easy, because they were old and put out of service and used as utility rope that got abused.
 
I've been having trouble finding the chafe guard stuff, too, and usually just buy it from TreeStuff. No complaints about it, works good. Shrink tube I buy off of Amazon or eBay and I buy so much of it I've given up on trying to remember the brands... I always get the heavy walled, 3:1, adhesive lined stuff, though. I pretty much buy it from whoever has it for the cheapest. I prefer the polyolefin stuff.

I just measure down however long the tail is and then add an inch or two... pull it out there, taper it and milk it back in. I don't think it's critical, you just need to go a little further than the length of the tail you're burying so you don't end up with any of it still hanging outside.

Personally, I like using a 10:1 safety factor for rigging stuff, too, because when you're thinking, "Ok, I need to keep the load, including shock forces, to one ton!" then you almost have to do something really stupid to break any of the rigging, because realistically the gear will handle a 5:1 factor for awhile. But, it won't last long if you actually try to do that. If I accidentally misjudge the weight of a piece, I'm not likely to misjudge it by double. So, I don't break stuff. I'm absolutely not a "push it to the limit" guy. I don't do enough tree work that I can afford to constantly replace broken gear and worn out ropes, so I try to make it last as long as I can. Back in the day, I worked for a guy who broke so many things (both his and other people's) that I'm not sure he ever showed a profit. I put up with it for a couple of years until he tried to push brush into the chipper with a garden rake. That didn't end well. He paid me for the day and the last thing I ever heard him say was, "See you tomorrow." The last thing he ever heard me say was, "The fuck you will."

Haha.. you quit cuz he used a rake.. Lol.. that's too funny.. Or was it because he let it get sucked through like a clown.. That had to have been a last straw scenario or something, as everyone i know uses whatever's in their hand to push shit through.. especially the ppl scared of poison ivy..

You prefer the polyolefin.. ok .. I'll remember that. There's so many types now i literally get lost deciding.. I probably have some & don't even know it.. Latley I've been using "Vinyl Guard" by Insultherm.. it's pretty clear.. There's also this heat shrink fabric by techflex.. seems pretty cool, but expensive.. might be the same as the Marlow stuff, as techflex is worldwide, but I'm sure their not the only ones who make it. I'll tell you what though... If like to try the 4:1 or 5:1 & see if i can get it around some preterminated stuff.. I thought i had bought some but it was bunk..



Yes that’s precisely my point. The idea of professional rigging in any situation is to never exceed the maximum safe working load in any part of the equipment. In fact when rigging buildings for light shows and hanging trusses, they have specific rules that at first don’t seem to make sense but when you think about it it does. The anchor must exceed any load it can be expected to see by factor of 10. No device shall be attached to anchor that exceeds rated load limit, ie clevace, shackle etc. No ropes or cables shall exceed rated anchor or connector. So in theory they want to see a step down effect from anchor to load. And all the parts serve to protect overloading those below them.

I get what your saying.. i understand it too.. it's a double triple failsafe type of deal..

What i meant by "pushing the 2700 if i had to" was, pushing to it confidently, without second guessing... not beyond it as my choice of words may have alluded to. However, I'm pretty sure that 2700 is derated & whatever number they started with was as well.. just so ppl don't go nuts..

Also.. not for nothing but, this industry does spend allot of time on breaking strengths, loads, science of things, etc, and rightfully so!!! However, what about the guys using natural crotch methods or the union/spar were hanging these devices in.. there's no rating on them & they're are a ton of unknown variables, but usually everything goes just fine.. You would think that there would be a bigger emphasis or disclaimer engraved into or written into instructions as to what is acceptable to hang them from.. I mean not everyone is genius when it comes to rigging anchors & placement.. What i mean is, something like a "do not use on a pine lateral under "xyz" or do not exceed 2700lbs on a spar less than "xyz".. Not those words exactly but you get what i mean.. for all the testing & science put into then, you'd figure there would be at least something covering there asses from the guy who's gonna go out & use it in all sorts of ill fated scenarios.. It just seems kinda odd there isn't & it's just assumed the unknown is going to be ok. I just don't think it would take much to mention in product descriptions.. who knows.. maybe it's just a can of worms they don't want to get into seeing as how many different species of wood there is.. all having different strengths.


Seems like SWL is for longer service life. It will take a beating above the SWL, and the candle that burns twice as bright burns half as long.

Remember, the ratings are for new gear with no physical or uv damage.

I'd like to see some old gear broken.

Yeah i would add well...
I know Mumford did some break testing on used & abused 16 strand.. i sent him some myself..



ropes are funny that way, damage happens collectively and one day the rope just lets go. I have snapped some big ropes seemingly easy, because they were old and put out of service and used as utility rope that got abused.

I concur.. i snapped a 3/4 to 1in double braid last year trying to pull a stuck peice of equipment.. Boss told me it was a bad idea, however sat there & allowed it.. I thought i knew better, as well as knowing what the truck had for torque, part if me knew the rope was old & to be honest i had been on him to buy a new one as i didn't think it was safe.. Anyhow.. under a slow pull (not a big dynamic jerk), the thing just snapped like nothing.. Part of me was suprised, part of me wasn't.. most of me was happy i didn't have to work with it any longer...

However point of the story is, i know if that thing wasn't all banged up & compromised, it wouldn't have snapped.


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Haha.. you quit cuz he used a rake.. Lol.. that's too funny.. Or was it because he let it get sucked through like a clown.. That had to have been a last straw scenario or something, as everyone i know uses whatever's in their hand to push shit through.. especially the ppl scared of poison ivy..

You prefer the polyolefin.. ok .. I'll remember that. There's so many types now i literally get lost deciding.. I probably have some & don't even know it.. Latley I've been using "Vinyl Guard" by Insultherm.. it's pretty clear.. There's also this heat shrink fabric by techflex.. seems pretty cool, but expensive.. might be the same as the Marlow stuff, as techflex is worldwide, but I'm sure their not the only ones who make it. I'll tell you what though... If like to try the 4:1 or 5:1 & see if i can get it around some preterminated stuff.. I thought i had bought some but it was bunk..





I get what your saying.. i understand it too.. it's a double triple failsafe type of deal..

What i meant by "pushing the 2700 if i had to" was, pushing to it confidently, without second guessing... not beyond it as my choice of words may have alluded to. However, I'm pretty sure that 2700 is derated & whatever number they started with was as well.. just so ppl don't go nuts..

Also.. not for nothing but, this industry does spend allot of time on breaking strengths, loads, science of things, etc, and rightfully so!!! However, what about the guys using natural crotch methods or the union/spar were hanging these devices in.. there's no rating on them & they're are a ton of unknown variables, but usually everything goes just fine.. You would think that there would be a bigger emphasis or disclaimer engraved into or written into instructions as to what is acceptable to hang them from.. I mean not everyone is genius when it comes to rigging anchors & placement.. What i mean is, something like a "do not use on a pine lateral under "xyz" or do not exceed 2700lbs on a spar less than "xyz".. Not those words exactly but you get what i mean.. for all the testing & science put into then, you'd figure there would be at least something covering there asses from the guy who's gonna go out & use it in all sorts of ill fated scenarios.. It just seems kinda odd there isn't & it's just assumed the unknown is going to be ok. I just don't think it would take much to mention in product descriptions.. who knows.. maybe it's just a can of worms they don't want to get into seeing as how many different species of wood there is.. all having different strengths.




Yeah i would add well...
I know Mumford did some break testing on used & abused 16 strand.. i sent him some myself..





I concur.. i snapped a 3/4 to 1in double braid last year trying to pull a stuck peice of equipment.. Boss told me it was a bad idea, however sat there & allowed it.. I thought i knew better, as well as knowing what the truck had for torque, part if me knew the rope was old & to be honest i had been on him to buy a new one as i didn't think it was safe.. Anyhow.. under a slow pull (not a big dynamic jerk), the thing just snapped like nothing.. Part of me was suprised, part of me wasn't.. most of me was happy i didn't have to work with it any longer...

However point of the story is, i know if that thing wasn't all banged up & compromised, it wouldn't have snapped.


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This industry is different in some respects due to the UNKNoWn factors. In the case of rigging a rock and roll show in a stadium, every factor is known, the building design, the anchor ratings, the load factors all of it sonthey are very specific when it comes to How it’s gonna be done!
I our business we need to use educated guesses based on passes experience. We have some variables we can understand and control and others that are sorta understood but kinda vague at best.
When the building breaks we look at the loads and the structure because we can determine why, by that is known. When the tree fails, it’s not so easy because more often than not our ropes and gear vastly overpower the tree.
 

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