SRT vs. DDRT and ascenders

[JustDave]

Hey y`all. The company I work for went to a climbing demo day that Vermeer put on in May. They featured Shane Blacktop, some Western BC climber, who showed us SRT among other things. It was an awesome day, we all learned a lot. Shane went up a 70` poplar like a scalded cat, and wasn`t even breathing hard.

However, now my boss is all gung-ho to buy the ``fancy rope and ascender things`` so he can climb SRT.

I`m NOT making fun of anyones skill level here. That`s not the point of this. My boss and I were talking about it yesterday at dinner time, and I told him it was a waste of money to buy a static rope and mini frog system. I told him to learn to footlock first, and buy a pair of ascenders.

I think I get the gist of climbing SRT, on a static rope, but I`d prefer to mess around low and slow on the weekend, rather than get thrown into it at work, and getting pushed to get the job done. AND, I don`t believe in running before you can walk. SRT setup looks a little technical, it doesn`t look like a 5 minute thing to learn.

So that`s my opinion. Not that it`s worth anything. I would rather buy a pair of ascenders and footlock, or at least a prussic loop, and learn to footlock a doubled rope, before I`d learn to climb SRT.

What`s y'alls opinion?

 

[tuttle]

If you currently use drt, is your setup with prusiks and pullies? or mechanical?

A single foot device is a winner, even if you mod any ascender, its pure and simple, buy used and have a practice.

For frog walking, its a fair thing to learn and make your own setup...so that your happy for costs and ease of switch over to drt etc.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Skip footlocking...its best left to the previous generation.

At some time, of course, a good climber MUST know how to FL.

In the mean time get onto SRT and start saving the wear and tear on your body. sure, there's a learning curve but you don't need to do that in isolation. TCIA has the SRT BP Manual...and so much is already on the Internet.

 

[oceans]

A foot ascender and a HAAS is all you need to create the most versatile ascent system for ANY rope style...DdRT, SRT, SRWP...thus you could go from walking, to jogging, to running, to all out sprinting!

I haven't been in many super long ascents lately, so I've been foot locking my SRWP system and staying really bare bones, but when the chance is there, it's foot ascender and HAAS all the way. It keeps things really simple and user friendly. Footlocking should really be a skill to employ in everyday work, especially for shorter distance moves where using a gear intense system would be a ridiculous proposition.

I'm sure that for anything over 100' of pure wide open ascent, you may want to find a way to keep your body upright without taxing your arms. That being said, Michael Frankhauser joined Mac and I at a 3 day trade show and we had lines set in the Expo center at 100'. I ran up that line too many times to count and never felt taxed. We had 2 Rope Wrench setups and one Rope Runner setup. All were used with just a foot ascender and HAAS added in.

Of course, it's all my $0.02!

 

[tuttle]

I'm not knocking the HAAS, but all you need is a 70cm sling, a nice piece of bungee, carabiner and a croll.

You can double up the sling so that you can put both feet in and off you go

 

[Raven]

Sry but footlocking is bad and should be relegated to the world of competition climbing just like the underhand chop and logrolling - these are fundamental and basic lumberjack skills but I bet you can't find one logger in a thousand who can actually do it, or needs to because the tools and techniques of the industry have evolved - same goes for our industry.

I'd say jump into SRT ascension with both feet (pun intended), but obviously practice any new technique "low and slow" and get training from someone more experienced. Have fun and be safe with it.

 

[CutHighnLetFly]

SRT climbing systems can be as simple or complicated as the user wants. i was put off by basal anchors and ascent systems that looked pretty elaborate and were hard to make sense of. but once i saw the climbing systems and base anchors in their simplest forms, things that seemed complicated made way more sense for me. i guess just its just how my mind works.
i dont own a static rope, so for occasional SRT my double braid climbing line's fine.
if you get into simple srt ascent, there wont be a need for foot locking. although i think everyone should know how to

 

[islandarb]

SRT with Haas and foot ascender....low and slow...footlocking is a good skill but so yesterday for tree entry...SRT will prolong your career and save your shoulders and elbows for use for playing with your kids...SRT employs your strongest muscles, LEG.....get some training...I am assuming you are in Toronto, get on facebook join a group called Single Rope Junkies, then contact the admin Cary Gibson he lives in Brockville and will gladly come out to your company and give you all some training ( for a fee )......but would be well worth it....

 

[oceans]

Sry but footlocking is bad and should be relegated to the world of competition climbing just like the underhand chop and logrolling - these are fundamental and basic lumberjack skills but I bet you can't find one logger in a thousand who can actually do it, or needs to because the tools and techniques of the industry have evolved - same goes for our industry.

I'd say jump into SRT ascension with both feet (pun intended), but obviously practice any new technique "low and slow" and get training from someone more experienced. Have fun and be safe with it.

Eric, I know where you're coming from, and agree with most of your post. We have certainly evolved with gear and technique. I will also agree that foot locking is NOT something that should be used for repeated long ascents, but it is vital for shorter moves. I can't think of a day I've climbed a large shade tree prune and didn't use it.

To further this discussion in regard to being kind to our bodies...it's not just ascenders and fancy SRT kit that will reduce wear and tear on our bodies. Prolonging our careers should include some stretching, practice, and proper diet and enough sleep. That all comes into play. My opinion is that if we care for ourselves well enough, a burst of foot locking here and there can't be all that bad, if at all.

Again, it's me, but I can't leave foot locking at home, especially the single-foot-wrap-locky-thingy-whatevertheheckyoucallit-technique.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

The trend for climbers who have shifted to SRT is to footlock for very short distances...4-5 locks at a time seems to be common. Longer climbs and its time to slip the foot ascender onto the rope.

Using FL for access is hopefully becoming less common.

 

[tuttle]

Regarding the basal tie in, my first time working with a tutor showed me his footlocking off an alpine butterfly for competition practice....

These pics are my el'cheepo setup, using a horse noseband as a neck saver
The slings have bike inner tube cut bands to tighten down if needed, I also attach the bungee to my system if needed.
Its better than foot locking, because you can get your knees to your chest and go for full thrust without the worry of missing a rope foot flick...

 

[JustDave]

If you currently use drt, is your setup with prusiks and pullies? or mechanical?

A single foot device is a winner, even if you mod any ascender, its pure and simple, buy used and have a practice.

For frog walking, its a fair thing to learn and make your own setup...so that your happy for costs and ease of switch over to drt etc.

I climb on a VT, with a hitch tender pulley. Tenex eye and eye.

My boss usually spur climbs, on a blakes hitch.

 

[JustDave]

SRT with Haas and foot ascender....low and slow...footlocking is a good skill but so yesterday for tree entry...SRT will prolong your career and save your shoulders and elbows for use for playing with your kids...SRT employs your strongest muscles, LEG.....get some training...I am assuming you are in Toronto, get on facebook join a group called Single Rope Junkies, then contact the admin Cary Gibson he lives in Brockville and will gladly come out to your company and give you all some training ( for a fee )......but would be well worth it....

Thanks!!! I will look into it when I can. My boss and I were talking about contacting Arborcanada for the same idea, hire a climber/instructor for a day to "show us the ropes", so to speak.

 

[JustDave]

Eric, I know where you're coming from, and agree with most of your post. We have certainly evolved with gear and technique. I will also agree that foot locking is NOT something that should be used for repeated long ascents, but it is vital for shorter moves. I can't think of a day I've climbed a large shade tree prune and didn't use it.

To further this discussion in regard to being kind to our bodies...it's not just ascenders and fancy SRT kit that will reduce wear and tear on our bodies. Prolonging our careers should include some stretching, practice, and proper diet and enough sleep. That all comes into play. My opinion is that if we care for ourselves well enough, a burst of foot locking here and there can't be all that bad, if at all.

Again, it's me, but I can't leave foot locking at home, especially the single-foot-wrap-locky-thingy-whatevertheheckyoucallit-technique.

But, that's sort of my point- you can buy the best newest shiny gear, but what happens if something breaks, and the new gear doesn't work? I don't think anyone should jump from spur climbing straight into SRT, you should have some basic knowledge of other ways to climb. So if you do get stuck you have a bailout plan, that doesn't rely on shiny gear.

I'm not the best climber, or the most advanced, and I don't care either, I think I'm a safe climber. I think jumping into SRT without some training or a lot of weekend practise is asking for trouble.

That's why I asked for the opinions.

Thanks!!!

 

[JustDave]

Regarding the basal tie in, my first time working with a tutor showed me his footlocking off an alpine butterfly for competition practice....

These pics are my el'cheepo setup, using a horse noseband as a neck saver
The slings have bike inner tube cut bands to tighten down if needed, I also attach the bungee to my system if needed.
Its better than foot locking, because you can get your knees to your chest and go for full thrust without the worry of missing a rope foot flick...

Thanks for the pics!!! So you use a Croll and a Pantin only, no hand ascender? I thought you were supposed to use all three....

I'm looking at ordering new climbing ropes, it should be "ok" to start messing with SRT on Poison Ivy?

 

[stheis004]

Regarding the basal tie in, my first time working with a tutor showed me his footlocking off an alpine butterfly for competition practice....

These pics are my el'cheepo setup, using a horse noseband as a neck saver
The slings have bike inner tube cut bands to tighten down if needed, I also attach the bungee to my system if needed.
Its better than foot locking, because you can get your knees to your chest and go for full thrust without the worry of missing a rope foot flick...

Hey tuttle, that looks like my kind of setup you've got there. I'm having trouble envisioning how it works; can you explain that a bit more or shoot a little video? Thanks!

 

[tuttle]

Thanks for the pics!!! So you use a Croll and a Pantin only, no hand ascender? I thought you were supposed to use all three....

I'm looking at ordering new climbing ropes, it should be "ok" to start messing with SRT on Poison Ivy?

The bungee works in place of the hand ascender, but if you wanted you can use the croll as a hand ascender and have a long footloop, a croll is a winner because if have not got a pantin, you can just strap it to your boot.

 

[tuttle]

Hey tuttle, that looks like my kind of setup you've got there. I'm having trouble envisioning how it works; can you explain that a bit more or shoot a little video? Thanks!

The bungee stretches when you progress and the croll get pulled up, then the pantin on your boot is ready for the next step.

What I do also is just put both my feet in the webbing loop and thrust both legs, progress is captured by my hitchclimber prusik or lockjack, and the bungee is ready to go again, its a no brainer, gives me 2ft > 2.5ft of travel.