Split Stem Through Bolting

Daniel said:
...it is such a rare occurrence as to defy the development of any practical knowledge...
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Then you do what you think is right and everyone else will do the same until something better comes along.

Why make all this noise?

If there's no 'proof' for one method then quiet down.

Something that I picked up many years ago when I was on the Z133 Committee is that the standard should be descriptive not prescriptive.

Here's the difference:

Descriptive: tie a knot
Prescriptive: tie a _______[named] knot

There is plenty of data to rely on for most of the 'numbers' aspect...but not all.



Does anyone know anybody who keeps a record of the observed successes and failures over their career? I doubt it. Lots of anecdotal info as well as some info in the A300:Cabling standard.
 
Tom Dunlap said:
Yes...I came across some.
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That's why I use a washer - wouldn't trust just a nut or even a jammed double nut setup alone (I always score an "X" on the rod end and peen the threaded rod and so nothing is going anywhere).

Tom on:
Descriptive: tie a knot
Prescriptive: tie a _______[named] knot

Years ago as I bounced around corporate oil and gas, I was on committee for review of API 2015, the API Tank Cleaning standard for the oil and gas industry. Over a couple of years we had amassed mountains of practical down to earth feedback from industry veterans on how to do petroleum tank cleaning jobs safely, most of which, once digested made it into the API standard. Then, years later along came the mantra of "Performance Standards" and frankly a lot of this accumulated wisdom was stripped out of the document and what was left was a really watered down version in my opinion (i.e. "Don't Blow Yourself Up!").
This residual memory/ experience is lost now, maybe forever since mass retirements are now all the rage in Oil and Gas. I actually in my later years here think we did a great disservice to the industry in the end in allowing this to happen. I also am a fan of a format for standards or regulations on the right page and an explanation of them and why it's so, on the left page of a document, as a way of maybe retaining some of this hard won experience.
My two cents today . . .
Keep up the good work.
 
Daniel said:
But has anyone ever seen a thru bolt fail?
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Yes. It is in a locust about 5’DBH and splits into 2 3’+ stems. It had a cable, common grade judging by the spliced ends, also snapped and the rod looked like it was stretched to failure. Both cable and rod, singular, were grossly undersized for that size tree ever 30 years ago when it was installed, approximately.
 
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I haven't seen a bolt failure per say. I have seen a tree fail, bolts hold, or bend, and also crack around the bolt/washer on impact(?). The latter might be a chicken and the egg kinda thing. Tree broke due to decay.
 
ghostice said:
That's why I use a washer - wouldn't trust just a nut or even a jammed double nut setup alone (I always score an "X" on the rod end and peen the threaded rod and so nothing is going anywhere).
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Great detail and point. I always peen, occasionally jam nut and peen. Sometimes double washer, never go without washers.
I have heard of lag threaded bolting, where there is no exit and its just snapped off. I've considered this on small ornamentals to only damage one side of the bark and cambium but haven't tried it yet.
 
I figure unless there's a gross overload like massive growth since bolting resulting in undersize failure, there's little chance of bend fatigue and it ought to boil down to how the wood fails.

Anyone have observations about corrosion? type of rod/nuts/washers used in face of that? Is there a standard

edit - bend fatigue is an argument to close the crack before bolting imo
 
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