Spar Work

Steve Connally

Steve Connally

Been here much more than a while
Location
Suffolk, Virginia
Im so guilty of only working off my flipline chunking down spar work. I know, I know, every time I do it the little voice in my head says you know better and that causes me a little speed becuase i'm very aware of not being redundant. I have been playing with the Teufelberger Sirius MultiSling. It just seems very cumbersomme to tie it off in a speedy manner like Taylor's video shows. He abviously has much better dexterity than I do although I like the set up very much.

What do you guys think about the Teufelberger RingLOOP
vs the Secret Weapon. Its basically the same principal as above, I suppose as long as I place a stopper below the 6 coil on the tail of my line I should be good to go.

As a practice I don't climb dead trees. Spent a lot of time working for a company who wouldn't put a climber in a bad tree. Unfortunately i'm not there anymore. Bucket or crane was always the alternative. Recently I watched one of the other climbers doing a removal I would not do. Young kid full of ego and an unequal respect for gravity. Well, he gaffed out of rotten wood on a pine spar and luckily for him the saw was in the cut and his saw lanyard(hank of nasty climbing line) didn't snap. The bar was bent almost 90* and his flip line was super loose. He surely would have been impailed on all the stubs at the base of the tree had his 200t not been his life support. Same guy who's gone to the ER 2 times on the last month for getting caught up in his rigging. Anyway thats really not the point.

Don't get me started on the quality of tree work im my neck of the woods...................

Anyway looking for thoughts on what you guys think. I have enough on my mind aside from that little voice nagging me that I know better>
 
Use 2 points of attachment.

Did you not bring a climbing line with you? How hard is it to throw it aroundthe spar at each cut? Or just flip it down wwith your lanyard?

I think you already know the problem and the solution.
 
Yeah I know. That's what I'm taking about but the line not choked does little good. Easy Jeff. I'm asking about what people think about 2 pieces of equipment. I know what is supposed to happen. I've been admittedly lazy in my choices. Yes I know to have 2 points. My climbing line as a second flip line is a waste of time. I'm looking for the better choice of gear to choke my line around the spar. The runnin bowline isn't the answer. If I'm gonna do it I'll do it rite. I want to have a retrievable choke for taking long pieces.
 
Even if you don't climb SRT you could integrate a figure 8 or something to make a choked system workable. Spar work with a wrench works great for me. I leave a tail on my choke point that's as long as the pieces I want to cut, descend on it, then retrieve it, set up, and cut. Then repeat.
 
With all the choking/cinching friction savers, and the srt gear and the variation of choking anchors there really is no reason to be working a spar with just a lanyard. It only takes seconds and the added security is a good piece of mind when blocking down. Honestly I dont even spike up on just a lanyard any more. I tie a running bowline in the end of my climb line and flip it up along with my lanyard. It takes some practice to be come efficient flipping both the lines but the security it provides is well worth it to me and I don't mind climbing just a little slower to achieve it. If I don't do this I just set a line higher in the tree and use an srt system to tend my slack and away I go, of course this has no place in spar work.
 
when i am chunking down a spar, i usually work off my flipline and use my climb line as a second lanyard, but their orientation changes things.

I have my flip line go from D to D as anyone normally does, and my climb line/second lanyard does the same, but when coming around the tree, i take a wrap around the first leg of the rope, essentially making it a square knot with the trunk in the bite. from there if i were to fall, the crossed legs of line would bite right where it is, and its simple to clip in and out of. Its much easier than the traditional method of double wrapping the trunk with the lanyard which makes it a B*t*H to try to spike down to your next cut with.

Im no good at posting pics, but if someone can PM me an email and if they are willing to post it, i have an image of me doing it at work.

-Steven
 
I have tried a bunch of variations. I have tried the second wrap and i've just used the bowline. Going down 6 or 8 feet is never and issue with those variations. With the multisling/secret weapon set up you use the 6 coil prusic to adjust the length of your tail. That would do away with those repels on the bull line when the trunk is being dropped. I will not let them pull over trunks with my lines so I have to get it out of the tree. I used to never climb without a secont point of attachment. I would never repel on a rigging line tied to a spar I was dropping. I changed companies and the pressure of productivity over safety made me, lazy, complacent, a bad climber, call it what ever you want. The point is I know I need to get back on track. The issue is being the oldest and highest paid climber on the crew, these kids who cut many more corners than I do are appearing to be faster, although more stuff gets damaged, than I am. I like what i'm getting paid so I try to keep the appearance of speed. I have had an eye opener to whats the bottom line for me vs the boss. Thus slow down a little, fix the shortcuts and get back on track. The money isn't worth it.

So I guess i'm asking secret weapon or RingLOOP to choke off. Do you think 1 ring or 2?
 
[ QUOTE ]
Even if you don't climb SRT you could integrate a figure 8 or something to make a choked system workable. Spar work with a wrench works great for me. I leave a tail on my choke point that's as long as the pieces I want to cut, descend on it, then retrieve it, set up, and cut. Then repeat.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have dabbled on SRT only on pruning or large trees. When I was on the buzz 2 years ago there was a lot of SRT discussion and the RW had just come out. I have a 1st generation on my SRT set up. I am knocking the dust off my system and have tweaked it quite a bit. Waiting for a big box from tree stuff.

I have always been too afraid to ask about your tie in for SRT on a removal. Do you base tie? Do you choke at the top for a tie in and then move your TIP down as you go. I honestly don't know any other climber I have worked around that climbs SRT so what I get is from here. I have been in deep since i've come back and am trying to learn as much as I can from you professionals. I've got 13 years under my belt but am not surrounded by the quality of climbers that are here on the buzz. Thats why i'm here. I appreciate you guys, well most of you, entertaining my questions, no matter how unnecessary you may think they are, without responding to me like i'm a moron.
 
If you use a rope wrench or Hitch Hiker, I choke the spar with an alpine butterfly/steel biner, leaving a 8 ft tail or so.

If you climb Ddrt, but want to use SRT for the spar, here is a good video of using the Petzl Pirhana figure 8 as a descender that you can lock off easily, and retrieve the choked system.

fast forward to 9 minutes into the video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6IInyAuIMi8
 
Thanks for the post. What I want is to get rid of the bowline set up. The butterfly/steel biner is a good idea. I had wondered of you would get a tighter choke and more rope to tree contact with a small ring to run your line through instead of a biner.
 
Steve, an easy system for you to set up with minimal gear is to tie a Running Bowline for a choke and set a carabiner hanging in the eye of the Bowline. Grab the tail of your climb line below the hitch/pulley and pop it into the biner. As you descend, it will be like leaving a pony tail. When you reach the next point to cut, grab both sides of the tail (up side and down side) and pull them together. They will pull the biner and release the choke. Done.
smile.gif


By the way, I remember you from before. Nice you're back.
 
Glad to hear you are getting back to safety! I think there are a few threads about SRT and removal work, I know there are plenty about different anchoring styles. I'm sure if you ask people will be glad to strut there SRT knowledge a little more too.
 
Not to derail but a lot of posts say tie a runner as a choker, simple it works that's cool. Just wondering why a runner instead of your safety snap? I use mine and it seems like the rope hangs in the end of the biner not bad side load. Just wondering?

Some time I tie on me safety snap and leave a 6' tail (for example)then just repel then pull the biner down then u don't have to baby step down the whole tree, just a suggestion.

Last thought is I know you know better but oh well I'm being extra careful, go see the awakening section or look up how many serious 'accidents' by 'seasoned tree workers' happen that deal with 1 tie in. Just something we all know but should follow
 
Yeah I got you. I agree and consider myself lucky. I'm kind of a hipocrite not being willing to cut some corners but will cut others. Water under the bridge. It just appears unnecessary to do whats rite in the eyes of the boss when everybody else isn't and they havent had a mishap yet. Tough to find bbalance between that. I have to skew the balance or lack of balance in my direction and let the cards fall as they will. The worry is with the loss of half of my household income I need this specific job. I get paid an outragious amount per hour for my area because so few guys are certified, drug free, reliable, and can climb spikeless. Its not a good working situation and balance is tough but hey, that excuse amounts to nothing if I plummet out of a tree! I'm with you, and agree. Trying to match safety and speed with improved technology and knowhow! Goal, no injuries, no loss of production/cashflow
 
I use either Kevin's method or an adjustable friction saver. Both are relatively easy to reposition once I'm at the cut. I had a similar situation to yours with my prior employer. In the end though he made more money with me than the other climber despite the appearance of the younger one burning through the trees.

You mention the other climber ended up in the ER twice so, how is it that he is more productive? Did this not cause significant downtime and subsequent lost production that offset the minor time gains of his shortcuts? His near misses, like gaffing out as described, are either going to be learning opportunities or the first domino falling toward the inevitable accident. On top of that what was the lost time of that little faux pas? Let's see, time repositioning himself, extracting the damaged saw, sending it down to be replaced, then there's the costs of the repair and the loss of the tool in the field. All these things add up to negate his supposed speed.

Is the boss not concerned at all about what his liabilities are for this kid? Is it a straight ahead, no control and fingers crossed kind of workplace? You may want to have a chat with the younger climber and get him thinking beyond the moment. That's the folly of youth, living now and without a thought for the future. Right after an accident is the time for the "teachable moment". Let him know you nor your boss want to be put in a place where either of you have to tell his mother, father, wife, gf, kids, siblings, etc... that's he's been seriously hurt or worse dead.

The other point to make is that all the "minor injuries" can and often do add up to a world of hurt when he's older.
 
Man i'm totally on the same page as you. It is a get the job done no matter what and hurry up workplace. Boss isn't there so it's an outa sight outa mind enviornment. Lots of sandbagging until the boss is on the job site then it's balls to the wall. I've got my pace and its the same all the time. Here's what happens. Yound climber in the tree bombs out debris at a furios pace and ground crew is burried. Tree is down fast boss man sees lots of productivity and the ground crew "slacking". Old climber---me--- works at the ground crews pace or gently moves them along a little quicker. Tree is down more efficently and the ground crew doesn't want to kick the climber's a$$.

You can't tell this kid anything, he's a cocky expert and everything he smashes is someone elses fault. He's just "that guy". If he show's up to work and isn't dodging a felony warrant. We have had several conversations about him talking smack about my style or the fact that I out work him on the long stretch. It's like the turtle and the hare. If I didn't think he could kick my butt I'd take him out back and dot his eye. It usually ends up in an apology from him and he's better for a week. I won't let him rope for me. He tore down multiple lines with a limb he was roping due to letting it run(Smoke coming from the rope). Blamed it on me and said I was recekless. The boss knows the deal but I dodn't understand why he's still employed. Anyway.........you can't teach the unteachable. He still swears the gaff incident was just part of the job, hapens to everybody.
 
So I played with both of these yesterday. I like the set up where the line goes through the ring not the biner. I just need to shorten up the legs quita a bit. Easy retrieval from the ground by pulling the tail.
 

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