"soft" combo ascender-descender -videos back up!!!

R

Ron

Location
Chattanooga
\"soft\" combo ascender-descender -videos back up!!!

Update: 7-JUL-2010 7:30PM
First, I changed the cordage and turns and it works and worked well. In fact it works so well that now I am very uneasy about presenting an experimental system that I have little experience with and no real testing. For all I/we know it could suddenly fail with no warning for no apparent reason.

<font color="red">Videos are back online:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-LllBrbIeM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFIxuM4H83k </font>

Since I cannot 'unpost' what has already been read and/or said:
If you choose to experiment with this, be aware that it is an untested system, we have no real experience with it, for all I/we know, it could suddenly and catastrophically fail. Be extremely careful. Always use safety knots AND a full backup system in case of an unexpected failure.

I do NOT know and have no way to determine how safe or reliabile this system is. Only testing and time can determine that.

Based on the glazing on nylon hitch material I saw tonight, it is possibe to melt a nylon or polyester rope, the hitch cord, or both. You must assume the hitch could suddenly release and drop you without warning. This is a completely untested, experimental method.

But, I can't resist saying - man does it work! I went up 38' and came down 38' - it exceeded all my expectations on this particular climb and rappel. Because it is experimental, it needs to be tested to determine the durability and effects of repeated use and how it would behave in a work environment.
 
Re: \"soft\" Unicender

As soon as I watch your vid I rushed out and tried it like it was a done deal. It is promising. The simplest things are often overlooked for so long. I found out on a removal why the revolver and 8 or kong are so important in SRT. I was on spikes and simply skipped the revolver because I was only using my rope as a back up. Well once I loaded my hitch a few times it locked up tight. Decending became almost impossible and I quickly put my revolver back in the system (some of us learn the hard way). Thanks for being so darn smart Ron.
 
Re: \"soft\" Unicender

Deleted for further consideration. See OP.

Since I cannot 'unpost' what has already been read and/or said:
If you choose to experiment with this, be aware that it is an untested system, we have no real experience with it, for all I/we know, it could suddenly and catastrophically fail. Be extremely careful. Always use safety knots AND a full backup system in case of an unexpected failure.

I do NOT know know and have no way to determine how safe or reliabile this system is. Only testing and time can determine that.

Based on the glazing on nylon hitch material I saw tonight, it is possibe to melt a nylon or polyester rope, the hitch cord, or both. You must assume the hitch could suddenly release and drop you without warning. This is a completely untested, experimental method.
 
Re: \"soft\" Unicender

There is some promise with this solution Ron.

When I was working with hitches for SRT I was finding a theme of hard shell stiff cords to spring open and release easier on descent.

Another theme was that smooth surface cordage released smoother than anything with a texture.

I wonder what would happen to the equalization of the two hitches if you used a small, double sheave pulley between the two instead of just clipping in a biner.
 
Re: \"soft\" Unicender

Velocity and 8mm beeline X 2. VT's and an HC. Needs some tweeking but after loading it and bouncing up and down a bunch it still released much easier than I expected. Sorry Tom but I am still looking for the cheapskates answer to the Uni.
 
Re: \"soft\" combo ascender-descender

Deleted for further consideration - see OP.

Since I cannot 'unpost' what has already been read and/or said:
If you choose to experiment with this, be aware that it is an untested system, we have no real experience with it, for all I/we know, it could suddenly and catastrophically fail. Be extremely careful. Always use safety knots AND a full backup system in case of an unexpected failure.

I do NOT know know and have no way to determine how safe or reliabile this system is. Only testing and time can determine that.

Based on the glazing on nylon hitch material I saw tonight, it is possibe to melt a nylon or polyester rope, the hitch cord, or both. You must assume the hitch could suddenly release and drop you without warning. This is a completely untested, experimental method.
 
Re: \"soft\" Unicender

I used two I&amp;I beelines stacked up on one caribiner. The bottom one had a few more wraps to shorten it up. A spin on what I saw in your vid. Not perfect but better than not having the revolver in the mix. Worth playing with.
 
Re: \"soft\" Unicender

have to check that out, Make a video of you tying the hitches. When you are decending though, it seems like what you would have is the equivalent of one hitch with a lot of coils. Or at least show a close up of the equilizing mechanism.
 
Re: \"soft\" combo ascender-descender

[ QUOTE ]
...I knew the reason friction hitches can descend on DdRT was because they only have half the climber's weight on them.

[/ QUOTE ]

I haven't read the rest of the thread or watched the vid- I will in a second- I just wanted to comment on this one line.

This is something I've pondered for the better part of a decade now. I, too, have looked for the perfect up/down SRT hitch. I sorta found it for a while, then gave up.

You mention that it is because only half the climbers weight is on the hitch and that is why down is an option in DRT...but there is something else going on in DRT that makes it possible.

By the "1/2 the weight" rationale, you could put me on DRT, fine tune my hitch. I weight about 180. So find a 90 pound kid, but them on MY hitch on SRT and it should work. Only half the weight is on the hitch, right? But we know that it doesn't work that way.

I think a big part of it is that in DRT, yes, only half is on the hitch. But add that the other half (the spliced end of the climbing line) is clipped to the climber and pulling up on the climber, in a way...

Alright, lemme go finish reading now...

love
nick
 
Re: \"soft\" combo ascender-descender

Ron- this is a great idea! I'm glad I watched the vid.

FWIW- when I was at the verge of cracking the up/down SRT hitch mystery, I found that I could use a 5/3 blakes made of 1/2" vectran single braid while climbing on 11mm rope. But I found that it worked FOR ME. When someone else tried it, it would either lock up, or not hold, depending on if they were heavier or lighter than me...

Yours actually is replicable!

It looked to me like you were pulling really hard at the end to make it come down. Was I seeing that right?

I can't wait to try it...

love
nick
 
Re: \"soft\" combo ascender-descender

Ron,
The manufacturers of the Uni are not going to be happy with you... But we are.
grin.gif
Nice job and thinking. I think I will try that today. Thanks for sharing.
 
Re: \"soft\" combo ascender-descender

I played around with this a bit last night. Still felt that on decent that it turned into one big hitch that locked up. I couldnt replicate Rons set up though. What I decided that for decent if there were some sort of spacer that kept the hitches apart yet you could control them both at the same time might work out.
 
Re: \"soft\" combo ascender-descender

Deleted for further consideration. See OP.

Since I cannot 'unpost' what has already been read and/or said:
If you choose to experiment with this, be aware that it is an untested system, we have no real experience with it, for all I/we know, it could suddenly and catastrophically fail. Be extremely careful. Always use safety knots AND a full backup system in case of an unexpected failure.

I do NOT know know and have no way to determine how safe or reliabile this system is. Only testing and time can determine that.

Based on the glazing on nylon hitch material I saw tonight, it is possibe to melt a nylon or polyester rope, the hitch cord, or both. You must assume the hitch could suddenly release and drop you without warning. This is a completely untested, experimental method.
 
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