"soft" combo ascender-descender -videos back up!!!

Re: \"soft\" combo ascender-descender

Deleted for further consideration - see OP.

Since I cannot 'unpost' what has already been read and/or said:
If you choose to experiment with this, be aware that it is an untested system, we have no real experience with it, for all I/we know, it could suddenly and catastrophically fail. Be extremely careful. Always use safety knots AND a full backup system in case of an unexpected failure.

I do NOT know know and have no way to determine how safe or reliabile this system is. Only testing and time can determine that.

Based on the glazing on nylon hitch material I saw tonight, it is possibe to melt a nylon or polyester rope, the hitch cord, or both. You must assume the hitch could suddenly release and drop you without warning. This is a completely untested, experimental method.
 
Re: \"soft\" Unicender

In all fairness Ron, I only played with the idea for about ten minutes yesterday before my boy woke up from his nap. I will be on some pruning today so I will give it another go. I think with some more air time my set up might not work so well. It was also a bit more bulky than I liked due to both I&I's on one biner. I will check back in this evening.
 
Re: \"soft\" combo ascender-descender

[ QUOTE ]

Without load sharing and constant equalization, one hitch will wind up with the full climber's weight on it and when that happens it locks up.

[/ QUOTE ]

The "intangible" that's difficult to achieve on SRT hitch rappel is that in DdRT the hand on the tail can variably take load to help keep the hitch running smoothly.
-moss
 
Re: \"soft\" combo ascender-descender

Well it didnt work out so well today. Trying to equalize the load on two I&I's is tricky at best the other issue I had is the top hitch not allowing the bottom hitch to lock at all. It seemed to work better for me yesterday but couldnt find the right combo today. I dont think this variation has any practical application at all. Sticking with my revolver for now.
 
Re: \"soft\" combo ascender-descender

I'm thinking I'll test using a real simple configuration, a Blake's top and bottom using one length of cord, with a biner to load balance/equalize as Ron showed, I'll report back.
-moss
 
Re: \"soft\" combo ascender-descender

See OP.

Since I cannot 'unpost' what has already been read and/or said:
If you choose to experiment with this, be aware that it is an untested system, we have no real experience with it, for all I/we know, it could suddenly and catastrophically fail. Be extremely careful. Always use safety knots AND a full backup system in case of an unexpected failure.

I do NOT know know and have no way to determine how safe or reliabile this system is. Only testing and time can determine that.

Based on the glazing on nylon hitch material I saw tonight, it is possibe to melt a nylon or polyester rope, the hitch cord, or both. You must assume the hitch could suddenly release and drop you without warning. This is a completely untested, experimental method.
 
Re: \"soft\" combo ascender-descender

Based primarily on my last climb last night, a pulley doesn't seem to be needed.

I'm now wondering how repeatable this is going to be in the sense if I hook it up the same way 20 times is the performance gonna be about the same each time.

I'm eager to see what moss finds with the Blake's as the friction knots. I tried this first with helicals and there's a problem with the way the helicals interact. The Blake has a similar configuration and I'm afraid they're going to have the same problem, but we can hope they won't.

I'll be out again this morning or this afternoon and I may give the Blake's a try if we haven't heard from moss
 
Re: \"soft\" combo ascender-descender

What about a hitch above a Kong robot? Hitch for assent ,robot for decent. Some of you guys are using something similar anyway aren't you?
 
Re: \"soft\" combo ascender-descender

The whole purpose of this hitch is to provide for both ascent and descent without changing anything or using any hardware other than a biner.

Between 6-7 feet of cordage and one biner can yield a very effective ascend/descend in one hitch. However, as mentioned before, it is not a 'done deal' by any means, and is in the experimental stage.

I had a great ascend and descend last night on it (38 feet) with no problems either direction, but I was using nylon cordage which of course isn't high temp stuff and I had some glazing which is no surprise.
 
Re: \"soft\" combo ascender-descender

I tried two Blake's on a single length of cord balanced/equalized through a rated ring attached to my harness. The hitches seized up tight, didn't work.

Edit: Used 11mm Velocity for the hitch cord tied on Sterling HTP 10mm (the climbing rope)
-moss
 
Re: \"soft\" combo ascender-descender

[ QUOTE ]
I tried two Blake's on a single length of cord balanced/equalized through a rated ring attached to my harness. The hitches seized up tight, didn't work.

Edit: Used 11mm Velocity for the hitch cord tied on Sterling HTP 10mm (the climbing rope)
-moss

[/ QUOTE ]
I was afraid that'd be the case. I climbed on Lava this morning and tried Blake's hitches with 8mm BeeLine, 9mm BlueWater and 9mm PMI prusik cord. I got the same results you did - they jam within a few feet and almost lock up.
Using the same rope and hitch cords, I also tried various numbers of turns and wraps with Distels, Schwabisch, two wrap and three wrap prusiks - nothing worked. They either locked up or they wouldn't hold.

So I didn't find anything that would work with Lava. Don't know if that's gonna be true for Tachyon or not.

That's a stark contrast to the performance of PMI 9mm prusik cord in 5 up, 1 down Schwabisch hitches on PI last night. That combination exceeded all my expectations. The advance was light and consistent, released and grabbed quickly all the way up to 38'. Coming down was equally rewarding. Smooth, controllable, stopped surely, restarted easily, I couldn't expect any more.

The only thing that's a problem is I glazed the nylon prusik cord. Now if I can find a high temp cord that works that good, that'd just about do it. 8mm BeeLine is problematic, 10mm might do better; gonna order some today and every other high temp cord I can find.
 
Re: \"soft\" combo ascender-descender

Try the blakes with the same dia as your climbing line, or one size larger. I had a single eye split-tail 10mm beeline and I used it with a blakes on Ddrt. I tried and tried but it would lock up on me. It was suggested to use the same size line and never had a problem with a blakes since (ddrt of course)
 
Re: \"soft\" combo ascender-descender

[ QUOTE ]
Try the blakes with the same dia as your climbing line, or one size larger. I had a single eye split-tail 10mm beeline and I used it with a blakes on Ddrt. I tried and tried but it would lock up on me. It was suggested to use the same size line and never had a problem with a blakes since (ddrt of course)

[/ QUOTE ]
That's what moss did - 10mm climbing line - 11mm hitch line.

The problem is in the nature of the knot. With both the helical and Blake's, part of the strands (helical) or loop (Blake's) of the upper hitch, comes in contact with the upper coils of the lower hitch and won't let it release. It pretty much jams up.
 
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