Show off them splices

[Santiago Casanova]

Santiago.. any input on why that dirty eye splice i was messing around with feels kinda hollow? It's super super tight, but cover feels like it has a tad if play.

You splice alot right? That happen to you ever? Just trying to learn here. Gunna be doing some T Vee in a few days, i don't wanna muck it up.

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X2 on Brocky's comment. Nothing wrong with it. The only issue here is that you are crazy enough to splice used 16 strand. Make sure you give it a good lock stitch to prevent slipping.

 

[Jimmycrackcorn]

It flattens because there's no core in the eye on a sixteen strand splice, unless you add one in later.

They're isn't? Did i remove it at some point during the process? Why am i drawing a blank?

EDIT- Sorry.. that's right.. now i recall.. i pulled them all out within the first few steps.. For some reason i thought you could either leave them in our out.. i just assumed removing them was some sort of more advanced technique & that i was following a more traditional factory instruction & leaving them in... But now that i look back at the instructions, it all makes sense..

So what's done with a 6in eye where you may want some rigidity to the eye? Like for a pulley saver where you want that eye to stay open for easier retrieval. Am i making sense here or is the cover always rigid enough? Or like a split tail for a Blake's, those don't look as if they would be hollow..

X2 on Brocky's comment. Nothing wrong with it. The only issue here is that you are crazy enough to splice used 16 strand. Make sure you give it a good lock stitch to prevent slipping.

Hahaha.. crazy.... possibly... it was killing me not knowing how to do it.. plus i got this Friction Saver with a different twist to it i'm trying to have made that turned into a disaster because of misinformation on their end & the lack of my ability to do it myself. If i had known how to do it two weeks ago it would have saved alot of time, stress & irritation not relying on other ppls word as to what works with what.. I would have seen it the parts first hand & just known.

That was the cleanest peice i had.. It's previous life consisted of holding two chock blocks together.. Yeah.. you said crazy, i didn't argue it... but i have no intention of climbing on it..lol. I'll give it a tug with my truck to see if the splice will hold & then I'll make a new one with some T Vee i have coming.

I found some flashy neon waxed twine for whipping, we'll see how workable it is.

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[Jimmycrackcorn]

Holy Crap! I give up.. Tachyon is not my friend!

This is it.. that's all i got.. NE & Samson double braid instruction.. what on Earth happened?

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[Brocky]

Just pull it out and try again. Make sure the tapers are tapered and not blunt ended. Smooth everything out.
When putting the core back into the cover you have to keep tension on both sides of the eye the whole time to avoid the bunching that you are getting.
When starts to get tight, stop and massage it, bend it back and forth at the tight spot to loosen up the cover.
When blisters start to appear switch to using a Prusik hitch to force the cover towards the eye, or maybe before!

 

[Jimmycrackcorn]

Just pull it out and try again. Make sure the tapers are tapered and not blunt ended. Smooth everything out.
When putting the core back into the cover you have to keep tension on both sides of the eye the whole time to avoid the bunching that you are getting.
When starts to get tight, stop and massage it, bend it back and forth at the tight spot to loosen up the cover.
When blisters start to appear switch to using a Prusik hitch to force the cover towards the eye, or maybe before!

Pull it out!! Omg.. I'm gunna have a aneurysm..lol.

So.. i did try the prusik thing a few hours ago after my hands started falling apart.. no luck..

I'm so lost in just the basics of it.. the standard double braid instructions I follow no problem.. but as soon as i start reading these tachyon specific instructions i get all sorts of fucked up.. then I hear to do this trick & that trick, i watch a couple vids of velocity splices & their shit just glides right in..

Then i go & do the tricks & fall flat on my face.. I actually thought i took too much out on the tapers & removal.. But like you were saying, i got all fucked up in the in the eye. It was like once i trimmed the first cores bury there was no turning back & couldn't get that dang cover to wrap back around.. the crossover was super super freaking hard even though I'm i know removed more than the directions suggested & more than the hipster trickster do..

Can i just cut the entire purple core out? Like within the first few steps to save room?

Anyways.. regardless of all my pshyco babble.. i ended up getting it to bury..!!! But by unconventional means.. i got it to go by pulling on the actual eye with a hydraulic ram.. I'm going to post these pics. Let me know if you think its bad to put that much stress on the rope.. As soon as i got it super tight it tucked right in.. However, i have no clue how much force it exerted to do so. What's odd it it was exerting forces in the opposite direction i was pulling.. I only put it on there out of frustration to see what it would do.. Obviously it isn't a traditional method..

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[Jehinten]

I haven't tried a splice on tachyon yet, but I know with splicing cougar there was a trick to tie one end to your truck and the eye to your harness. Then you would just bump backwards into your harness to get that final bury. Seems to me like you just did the same thing with a consistent pull; although I really don't know how much force you put on it. might be safe, might not be. Treestuff offers break testing if you want some peace of mind on your splices.

 

[Brocky]

Your problem might have been over tightening of the crossover, causing it to stay bunched up, and have a larger diameter. It should only be as tight as the braid of the rope.
You didn't bend the steel hook the ring was on, so you probably didn't stretch it too far.

 

[Jimmycrackcorn]

Your problem might have been over tightening of the crossover, causing it to stay bunched up, and have a larger diameter. It should only be as tight as the braid of the rope.
You didn't bend the steel hook the ring was on, so you probably didn't stretch it too far.

Ahhh right.. fine point.. didn't bend the steel hook.. i wonder what would have happened if i kept going.. you think it would snap it? 14 - 16k dump?

So how do you over tighten it..?

I was having trouble just trying to do the crossover with a hollow fid.. there was no way that was going to go through like the instructions suggested. I used the same wire contraption i did on the dirty 16 strand i did a couple days so.

What I'm curious about is, when is it too much, at what point am i taking too much taper off? For example, i saw a trick on this velocity video where the guy measured a fid length back from one of the marks & just starts yanking core stands 4 at a time for a certain distance..
I don't think New England's instructions called for me to do any of that but i did anyways just thinking of space & it was still super tight. I know that's s hard question to answer as it most likely comes with experience.

Regardless, but does anyone actually have success with the Tachyon instructions? I haven't seen any videos where they are followed to the "T". In fact all the other double braid videos i saw were much different with how & when things got sleeved, crossed or buried.

Here's the video i tried to follow for a few certain steps.. At 4;00 exactly is how i pulled strands, except i pulled 2 out of the 4 strands for a little further distance.

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[Santiago Casanova]

With tachyon, I like to do the cover bury first. Then taper the cover. Next pre taper the core. Then pull the core through and measure and trim it. Most instructions will have you do the core bury first then the cover. I also take the three inner strands out at mark 2 and use them to stitch the crossover together. I leave it loose but it is enough to keep it from slipping while I am trying to do the final bury.

Tachyon is not easy. It takes some practice. I recommend starting double braid splicing on rigging lines.

I have used some MA to set kernmaster splices. I used about 300lbs of force and they hold tight with no slipping.

 

[Jimmycrackcorn]

With tachyon, I like to do the cover bury first. Then taper the cover. Next pre taper the core. Then pull the core through and measure and trim it. Most instructions will have you do the core bury first then the cover. I also take the three inner strands out at mark 2 and use them to stitch the crossover together. I leave it loose but it is enough to keep it from slipping while I am trying to do the final bury.

Tachyon is not easy. It takes some practice. I recommend starting double braid splicing on rigging lines.

I have used some MA to set kernmaster splices. I used about 300lbs of force and they hold tight with no slipping.

Ohhhh so you do jump around the steps...

Now it makes sense..! Well some of it anyways.. haha.
I kept seeing these videos of guys jumping around & it kept causing me to second guess what i was doing.. But yeah... the jumping around seems like it would work better.

So you use the inner core to cross stitch.. that's a good use.. I was having trouble trying to figure out whether it was at the correct length.. So when i imagine stitching it myself, i picture a scenario where i have it too short & it milk/pulls what it needs from the other end of the rope creating an internal disaster. Idk, maybe thats not a possibility within that extra step.. i just know i had a really hard time manipulating & figuring out what length those strands were supposed to be. I know, it sounds confusing.. i dont know how to explain it.

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[Santiago Casanova]

You are right about the potential for internal disaster. If you milk everything as you go and keep it from being pulled tight in the eye, you will be fine. For now just cut them at mark 2 and use a piece of whipping twice for your stitch. It works the same. A light crossover lock stitch will really help with bunching up in the eye. If it gets baggy just give it a hard yank and it will normalize.

 

[Jimmycrackcorn]

You are right about the potential for internal disaster. If you milk everything as you go and keep it from being pulled tight in the eye, you will be fine. For now just cut them at mark 2 and use a piece of whipping twice for your stitch. It works the same. A light crossover lock stitch will really help with bunching up in the eye. If it gets baggy just give it a hard yank and it will normalize.

You see this picture below..? I think part of my problem was the milking aspect, not knowing when & where to allow or not. I also wasn't sure whether to follow the picture or the direction.. the big arrow shows the mark they tell you to bury cover at, but the small are shows how their doing it about a half an inch after.. I went directly through the center of my Mark 2... not in front of it. I feel by doing so it made the entrance of that cover bury bulky & hard.

Does this make a difference. Bury after or Directly on the mark?

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[ARLO]

Holy Crap! I give up.. Tachyon is not my friend!

This is it.. that's all i got.. NE & Samson double braid instruction.. what on Earth happened?

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Looks to me like the main problem is that you did not keep enough tension on the crossover side of the rope when doing the bury. That causes the core strands to bunch up and the bury comes to a screeching halt. My advice is to really focus on keeping the tension on both sides of the eye when doing the bury.

 

[Jimmycrackcorn]

Looks to me like the main problem is that you did not keep enough tension on the crossover side of the rope when doing the bury. That causes the core strands to bunch up and the bury comes to a screeching halt. My advice is to really focus on keeping the tension on both sides of the eye when doing the bury.

Yes.. i believe that to be true.. i didn't understand where or what i was supposed to be pulling or milking.. i just saw it going in & assumed whatever i was doing to make that happen was correct. The bury I'm doing right now is going a bit smoother. The core is stillbunching up a little, but i also "stitched" the crossover to camp it down a bit. Might have a pic & question in a few minutes here.. Looks like there is a single tight strand on the cover side of the eye down by the splice/extraction point. Not sure what it means, but we'll see if it goes away.

 

[Jimmycrackcorn]

Yes.. i believe that to be true.. i didn't understand where or what i was supposed to be pulling or milking.. i just saw it going in & assumed whatever i was doing to make that happen was correct. The bury I'm doing right now is going a bit smoother. The core is stillbunching up a little, but i also "stitched" the crossover to camp it down a bit. Might have a pic & question in a few minutes here.. Looks like there is a single tight strand on the cover side of the eye down by the splice/extraction point. Not sure what it means, but we'll see if it goes away.

Ok.. so here's what i got.. i ended up with allot of bag in the eye.. miles from crossover around eye to throata few times & the whole thing loosened up & bury started to back out.. makes sense though.

With the core bury backed out few inches, i captured all the cover slack the best i could & pinned it down by the throat because it was still too hard to send past that point & into the rope..

With it pinned i started the bury again & it slide in wicked frigging easy.. if i was to compare how easy it went in compared to what I'm used to, I'd say it felt to good to be true... Im talking it went past the the eye size marker (forgive me i forget which letter mark that is) by about a half inch.

After that I, while still trying to milk any extra bag out, i put on my harness & tied off to my truck. I bounced around on it a little & I'm pretty sure this thing is done.. well i say done as in, I'm not sure what else to do at this point to correct anything that could be wrong..

Does any of that sounds concerning? Like the part where it went back in easy?

Here's a few pictures..

This is where i was pinning the slack to because i couldn't milk down any lower anymore.. i kept that there while i bounced on it & milked towards me in the typical bury fashion.

Also, this pic is from before i pulled the bury out a bit, but this is the weird kink or tight strand i was mentioning in my last post..

This is the end result with some of my weight on it.. Should that kink concern me or is it just aesthetic?

Few more of it...super hard by the 5 blue tracers.

Just to give anyone trying to help a heads up.. right now with splicing, I'm like that guy who's knows how to change his oil.. but doesn't know why he's doing it or what it's purpose is.. Ok well maybe not that bad.. but you get the point.. milk this way, that way, pull here but there at the same time.. i can't think off the cuff yet.

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[Brocky]

The kink forms from the stretching of opening for the throat. Most double braid splices have them. I wonder about your fourth picture, where the back of the eye is shown, the diameter of the rope looks to be of a smaller than the rest of the eye. Even with the kink the rope should have the same diameter. Could the core have been pulled out? Try squeezing it at that point to see if you can feel the core inside the cover.

 

[Santiago Casanova]

I think some of the core taper slipped into the eye. It looks to be a few strands smaller. I had this happen to me when I was learning. It just takes a little practice.

 

[Jimmycrackcorn]

The kink forms from the stretching of opening for the throat. Most double braid splices have them. I wonder about your fourth picture, where the back of the eye is shown, the diameter of the rope looks to be of a smaller than the rest of the eye. Even with the kink the rope should have the same diameter. Could the core have been pulled out? Try squeezing it at that point to see if you can feel the core inside the cover.

I think some of the core taper slipped into the eye. It looks to be a few strands smaller. I had this happen to me when I was learning. It just takes a little practice.

Yes Brock.. that's what i was also trying to capture.. the difference in width..

If I'm not milking & fucking around with the small amount of bag in the eye, that kink it usually super hard.. I've tried pounding on it, rolling it over a biner, yelling at it.. etc. It just stays.. Also, i was looking at my other splice i did & although it's really hard to notice just glancing at it, it is also smaller than the rest, just hard to notice..

Now, If i take the bagginess from the opposite side of the crossover & milk it around towards the bury & into the throat i can make the bury back out. It's not easy by any means, but i am able to make it happen. It's like i have to milk both knot end & eye end towards each other all while pulling down on the rope itself.. that's when it will back out.. but it kind of makes sense that it would as it's creating room... I will say one thing.. the actual throat isnt half as hard as my first one (not talking bout kink).. I did alot of long tapering. I also pulled 4 core strands of 4, before the bury. Like in that video i linked with the elevator music & the velocity ring & ring.

Also.. is there an easier way for me to explain the two different sides of the eye? So i don't have to go into so much detail trying to explain what I'm doing? Like one side cold be called the crossover side and the other is..."insert here"...lol. Can we make up our own words..lol. Or do they exist already..?

Santiago.. if i cut the taper too short would it get sucked all the way back up there from "Mark D". I'm having a hard time picturing what's actually inside there but know i did a rather long taper.

I right now i have any bag left in the eye pinned down by the crossover & throat.. I'm going to hook it up to the hydraulic lift again & just see what happens. Maybe it will go away.. pushing the bag to the other side & physically whipping it does nothing.

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[Jimmycrackcorn]

Ok.. so i did the hydro ram thing with it pinned with it unpinned, milked thus way & that.. bagginess went no where but eye just kept burying.. eventually it buried about 2-1\2 inches past the original eye size mark. Even after that, with the bagginess left in the eye, I was able to manipulate the bury back out..

Sorry to be posting like crazy in here with nothing finished to show... is this the correct place for this conversation?

Is it acceptable to have bagginess in the eye or is it the whole reason I'm able to undo the bury (because I'm pushing it into the throat)? If i whipped it with stiching should i trust it? I just can't figure out if your supposed to be able to undo your splice with such ease before being stitched..

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[Brocky]

Your last picture shows how to get the baggyness out of the eye, but on the opposite side of the eye. You need to push the slack from throat to the other side of the eye and put a pin through it. Now pull on the pin, which will pull the core out, which gets sucked back into the rope as you try to bury the crossover. If you do that and the crossover is fully buried, it should be done. Next put a small load on it and then see if that narrower diameter is still there. I'm thinking that the cover has slipped in the crossover, creating a longer eye, which would cause the core bury to come out. This would explain why it was easier to do and why it is more flexible than the first splice.